Big East Mess

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Pete Richert, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    The Big East should self-forfeit their bowl bid. Pittsburg is going to go at 7-3??? Give me a break. There are at least five teams more deserving then that, including Louiville who will be in the Big East next year. Pittsburg ISN'T EVEN RANKED!!!
     
  2. KenH

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    The BCS rules are the BCS rules.

    Let's hear it for a playoff system. [​IMG]
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    But not in the REAL BCS majors, so who cares? If a team gets 6 wins (including over Division II or perenniel losers like Wyoming) they are eligible.

    Problem is not the system; it is the number of bowls. Most meaningless and only a few truly profitable.

    And folks like me couldn't even tell you who is in the Big East. Seriously. Pac 10 I can tell. SEC I can tell. Big 12 I can tell. Big 10/11 I can tell.

    But Big East?

    All Blue states, right?
     
  4. go2church

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    Almost, Dr. Bob all six wins have to be against Division I-A programs. Division 1-AA, Division II don't count toward the total needed to be eligible. But the thrust of the point is well taken. Although I would say the system is at fault. The number of bowl games are greatly supported by coaches and college presidents. The teams get up to a month of extra practice and the they end up on national TV. So I don't think they are going anywhere.

    The Big East football for this year is:

    Boston College
    U Conn
    West Virgina
    Pittsburgh
    Temple
    Syracuse
    Rutgers

    So no, they are not all blue states

    Nest year the football will look like this:

    Cincinnati (CUSA)
    Connecticut
    Louisville (CUSA)
    Pittsburgh
    Rutgers
    South Florida (CUSA)
    Syracuse
    West Virginia

    Here is a link to see what all the conferences are going to look like in 2005

    2005 College footbal conference listings
     
  5. Kaleidoscope

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    Pittsburgh won the Big East! That is SO cool! YAY! :D
     
  6. FriendofSpurgeon

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    I thought the new name was the Big Least.
     
  7. Kaleidoscope

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    That would be appropriate. [​IMG]
     
  8. JackRUS

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    Pitt can't help it that another conference raided their's last year. What would the Pacific conference be without USC and California? The Big Nothing? How about the Big 12 without Oklahoma and Texas?

    As for the Big Least...what about basketball? Didn't they just win the last two national championships by tearing up the tournament? And without Miami and Virginia Tech they are better off. Wait until next year when Louisville and Cincy are added. They already are better than the almighty ACC, even if the media hates the idea. (And they do).

    BTW, the Pitt Utah game still has to be played yet.


    BTW, Pitt is 8-3 and they are ranked. And they are not the first team to do this you know. Purdue was 8-3 and got a Rose Bowl invite about four years ago. Also...

    "Pitt's final BCS standing is No. 21, meaning the Panthers are not the lowest-ranked team to qualify for a BCS bowl. In 1999, Stanford played in the Rose Bowl with a BCS ranking of 22.

    "To single out Pittsburgh and the Big East is unfair," said Weiberg, who is also commissioner of the Big 12 Conference. "Obviously, we have some work to do in terms of automatic qualification standards. People say, 'Why not just have the top eight teams play?'

    "This system has always been built around conference champions. Speaking for the Big 12, we are not in favor of taking a conference champion out of the mix simply to take the teams that are ranked [No.] 1 through 8."

    http://postgazette.com/pg/04341/422421.stm

    You know; Stanford. The team from the Big Nothing Conference.

    Question. Which college team has the best overall record in basketball over the last three years?

    [ December 06, 2004, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: JackRUS ]
     
  9. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Sorry, in football they are the Big Least and will continue to be so with the likes of Rutgers, UConn, etc.

    Yes, they have won the national championship in B-Ball the past two years. The Big East has always been a good B-Ball conference and will continue to be so. However ... right now they only have three teams in the Top 25 compared to the ACC, with seven in top 25
     
  10. JackRUS

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    If the ACC is so good, then how come two Big East teams played for their championship this year?

    And what do you mean by "continue to do so..."? This is just one year after being raded by the ACC. Next year Louisville comes in and Temple gets the boot. Every conference has weak teams, but UConn is an up and coming team and so is S. Florida. Virginia Tech was nothing before coming to the Big East, and they know it. The northeast is a good recuiting base, so these teams will improve fast.

    And the answer to the BB question is Pitt.
     
  11. FriendofSpurgeon

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    I didn't say the ACC was a good football conference, I said that it is. Please don't tell me that Louisville, UConn (a 7-4 record with wins over Murray State, Buffalo, and Temple) and South Florida (a 4-7 record) make up for losing BC, UM, and VTech. It will (for the forseeable future anyway) continue to be the worst major football conference - but at least better than the MAC.

    In terms of conference strength, here is the current order with the Big Least clearly at the bottom:

    SEC - 5 teams in top 20
    ACC - 4 teams in top 20
    Big 10 - 4 teams in top 25
    Big 12 - 4 teams in top 25
    Pac 10 - 3 teams in top 25
    Big Least - 2 teams in top 25 (barely - 18 & 25)
     
  12. JackRUS

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    Are you suggesting the the Big East be kicked out of the BCS because another conference raided their's and it wasn't able to recover in less than a year? And who would you replace them with?

    I'll tell ya what, take away the best two-three teams from each of your list of conferences and then give me your order of prominence again.

    Read this:

    "Big East football was awful this season. It’s undeniable. But the sustained outrage over the league has been stunning.
    Remember when the so-called “Big East rule’’ went into effect back in 1999? The one that said conferences would be “subject to review and possible loss of automatic selection by the BCS should the conference champion not have an average ranking of 12 or higher over a four-year period’’?

    Well, the very next season, Stanford, the Pac-10 champ, finished out of the final regular season BCS rankings (which only went to 15) and Associated Press Top 25. The league’s coaches managed to get the Cardinal in at No. 24 in the USA Today/ESPN poll. (Possible ethics question there, huh?)

    Anyway, does anyone remember outrage over the Pac-10’s status back then? Was anyone claiming the league should be tossed from the BCS?

    Didn’t think so.

    For once I’d like to hear a talking head continue a thought after bashing the Big East. OK, so the league stinks. You wish it tossed from the BCS. Fine.
    My question: Which other league would you install?

    Look around. The Mountain West? Please, really. Stop it. You’re killing me. There’s Utah and then there’s ... did I mention Utah? The next best team after the Utes is New Mexico at 7-4. (Insert gag here.) After that it’s 6-5 Wyoming. You’re telling me you’d trade in Pitt, West Virginia, Syracuse and, next season, Louisville, for that? Didn’t think so. The Western Athletic is much the same. Boise State and the rest, although Texas-El Paso and Fresno State had decent seasons. Among the best non-BCS leagues was Conference USA with Louisville, Memphis and UAB. But, again, the Cards are flying to the Big East."

    -- Mitch Vingle Charleston Gazette
    _________________

    And BTW, the Utes just lost their coach. Exit laughing.
     
  13. whatever

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    The answer is to flush the BCS. If every other NCAA division can have a playoff then Division 1-A could do so to. But there's too much money at stake for reason to prevail.
     
  14. JackRUS

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    That would depend on how you define 'reason'.

    What do we really gain on having a national champion that no one disagrees with? This same school of thought is what has ruined sports competition on the high school level as well. If you don't win it all you are a complete failure in what you do, and so are your radical parents who live vicariously through their kids. What a rotten world we live in to have fallen into this competitive trap. Which incidently is the very antithesis of Christian thought and hopefull, practice BTW. Mt. 20:25-28; Rom. 12:1-3; 1 Cor. 4:6-7, etc.

    The colleges out there gave had a good idea of playing competitive ball, and rewarding their players with a bowl invite if they are successsful. That's supposed to be, graduate their players, and reward good sportmanship with a bowl. They should never sway from this formula just because fans out there can't live without a one year champion superhero over all.

    If you need that, I suggest that you follow the NFL for that fix. Besides, for those that know the Lord, we are already on the only true winning team that will reign forever. Everything else is pure vanity. Ecc. 1:2-4.

    We don't have to have either a playoff, for which the players are not payed BTW, only beat up; nor do we need a mythical national champion. Who cares? To suggest that the level of play and good clean competition in college football is somehow compromised becasue we as fans don't get to glory in a 'true' national champion is wrong.

    The system does not need fixed. We do.
     
  15. whatever

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    As far as I know Division 1-A football is the only NCAA sport without an official national champion. If you think none of them should have one, that's fine, make the case. I disagree but that's OK. I do not think that declaring a champion has ruined any sport. What does ruin sports in general is the attitude that winning is the only thing that matters, and there is plenty of that in 1-A football even without a championship. Many still think that things like sportsmanship, fair play and giving one's best effort are worthwile and are still to be commended, and that these things can be commended whether a champion is declared or not.

    The BCS supposedly came about as an attempt to match the two best teams in order to decide a unanimous (but unofficial) national champion. It should have been clear then, and it is clear now, that the BCS is incapable of doing so. Whether the Big East is included in a BCS bowl or not has nothing to do with declaring a national championship, but the BCS has become all about who should get a piece of the bowl money pie. If having a champion is important then a playoff is the way to go. If the concerns that you mentioned are most important then perhaps a playoff is unnecesary. Either way the BCS should be abandoned.
     
  16. JackRUS

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    Be careful what you ask for. If the BCS is abandoned, then we would go back to the old system of bowls inviting whoever they want based on TV ratings and money. Is that really what you want?

    "Under the old bowl system many major bowls had conference tie-ins, in fact, most of us had tie ins to one or more of the bowl games. It's only under the new system, which I think has been better because it allows bowl committees to select teams later in the season when everyone has a clear picture of the bowls and the conference standings and it allows them to select any team, not just those with guaranteed spots and not just Notre Dame to have an opportunity to play their way into the bowls."

    http://www.bcsfootball.org/news.cfm?headline=3

    The BCS is working on improvements such as not having a pre-season ranking. That would have helped Auburn this year. Want to guess who were the pre-season picks for #1 and #2?

    Hint...they are playing for the national championship in January that everyone covets because no one could knock them out of their pre-season ranking. Oh boy, am I happy now that the 'true champions' are playing one another! Based of course on the opinions of those infallible sports writers who ranked them, and those coaches who don't see them all play. (Thank God for ESPN eh? They can always watch Sports Center! Sigh.)

    That is why they will always be, even with a playoff system, known as the mythical champions. There are too many tems in the college 1-A system for it to be otherwise. Not so in the NFL. Live with it...deal with it.
     
  17. whatever

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    Of course not. The other alternative is a playoff. Even if it were just an 8 team playoff you'd have a champion. Whatever team thought that they were cheated because they were number 9 wouldn't have much of a complaint. Playoffs work for the other divisions and they would work for 1-A.
     
  18. JackRUS

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    That would entail having two extra games for four teams. What about their studies?

    I like the plus one model more.

    "Options would likely include staying with the current four-game formula or possibly reopening discussions on the so-called "plus-one" model, which would entail playing the four current bowls and then picking the two highest-rated winners, according to the BCS formula, to meet in a national title game."

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2004-11-02-bcs-negotiations_x.htm
     
  19. whatever

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    The students in the other divisions manage to get their studies done. The 1-AA champs will play 15 games before they are through. So it is already being done.
     
  20. FriendofSpurgeon

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    The BCS isn't going anywhere anytime soon. So, keep the Big Least in there. You're right, who are you going to replace them with?? They are the only big conference left.

    They're still the weakest conference (this year), but will improve with Louisville on board next year. One conference will always be the worst of the bunch. Right now (in football), it's the Big East. Two years from now, who knows. (OK, it'll still be the Big East, but we don't know for sure.)

    For B-Ball, they are indeed BIG East and clearly outclass the SEC, Big 10, Big 12 and Pac 10. Not the ACC of course.
     

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