Bill Gothard

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by USMC71, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. USMC71

    USMC71
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    Just wondering if any of ya'll have had to come to confront Bill Gothard and his philosophies during your ministry.
     
  2. exscentric

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    Nothing specific but back when he was popular everyone seemed to have to face it, pastors that went to the conferences returned with their red notebooks to the evening services to spread it further. Ours regurgitated for months.

    I snooped through one of the notebooks years ago and found that he was one of those gifted men that could find a ton more in a verse than I could - read that, gift of adding to and taking away from :laugh:

    He had a lot of good stuff as well, so that is the crux - take some leave some.

    Usually if someone liked him you would never convince them that there was problems.
     
  3. thjplgvp

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    Concerning Gothard

    I have gone to the institute of Basic Youth Conflicts, the Advanced Seminar for Basic Youth also his Anger Resolution seminar. Like all teachers Mr. Gothard at times pulls out meanings that are a stretch :rolleyes: of ones understanding. None-the-less I have recieved some solid information over the years.

    My current beef with Mr. Gothard is based on his Character First Program which definately and unarguable promotes pure Deism in that he teaches morals from a conscience (natural) view and not from biblical authority. In effect he is teaching others to do "that which is right in their own eyes". We do not steal because it is not right we do not steal because God says we are not to covet anothers possessions and to do so is sin.

    I trust this is a help
     
  4. Dale-c

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    Iwas asked a few years ago to volunteer for the Character first program so I tried it out briefly. It was a totally unBiblical program I even wrote an article about it in a Christian newsletter. I am not sure if that is still online or not but I will see....
    Another article that may be of interest is this here:

    http://www.brandedforchrist.org/sermons/gothard.html

    That article is written by my dad. I will have to look for the one I did.
     
  5. Dale-c

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  6. thjplgvp

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    Re: links

    Dale the web page opened but the links in 1 and 3 do not work and when I tried to open 2 my Cybersitter blocked it.

    Just thought you should know.

    But your father's article was clear and well done.
     
  7. Dale-c

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    Which links did you have a problem with?
    I manage the brandedforchrist.org site so I can fix anything that is wrong. I tried the links on that page though and they worked.
     
  8. thjplgvp

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    Re:Link

    sorry Dale I did not scroll down I kept clicking on the outline assuming it would take me to the article and it just kept saying link missing. I scrolled this time and found it. Sorry for the incovenience.
     
  9. thjplgvp

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    Re:Character first link

    Dale,

    From a personal perspective I work in a company whose leadership is "Christian". We have the monthly meeting of Character First and at the end of the reading the CEO or Financial Director will pray to God and thank him for his blessings etc.

    Here is my take or expression of the problem as I see it. The leadership of our Company is "my way or the Highway", they have proven to be untrustworthy in fulfilling their promises and in general demonstrate un-Christian symptoms of greed. Example: The area that I work continues to charge the company we are billing for parts we no longer use on their product. This is theft therefore when they speak on stealing it is a joke amongst the employees.

    An employee gets hurt they will not pay the employee for the three days between loss of work and Work Comp benefits. If a person gets hurt at work and is only out 2 days he has to take Vacation (no sick leave) etc.

    The bottom line is that character apart from regeneration has little affect on the lives of others. The men I work with look at the entire program as a joke because it is not modeled before them.

    Hope I am not rambling here?
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

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    My problem

    My problem with Brother Gotthard stems from his seemingly cutting
    from the Bible. His position on parental authority seemingly denies this and other related verses in the Gospels.
    Not to mention, Acts 5:29
     
  11. Squire Robertsson

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    One of the related passages I referred to above:
     
  12. USMC71

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    I agree, it seems that throughout most Christian circles, regardless of denomination, most have that same opinion of him and his teachings. Character First is just a way to teach the unregnerate man that he can be Christ-like, without being converted.
     
  13. USMC71

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    To what extent do you think a person should seperate from a perosn who is involved with Gothard, seeing that he does handle the Word of God deceitfully?
     
  14. Dale-c

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    I have good friends that are involved in Gothard programs.
    I don't mind if someone goes to his classes or uses any of his material if they can learn from it.
    As for me personally, I am a bit burned out so to speak with him so I have a hard time trusting him at all.

    My impression is that he puts good works way too high, to an extreme beyond grace.
    That said, many of his ideas are good ideas.

    As far as associating with people who associate with him, forget about Gothard and pay attention to the person.
    What are they like?
    Are they self-righteous? Do they look down their noses at others?
    Or are they genuinely trying to serve God?
    I have seen both types come out of Gothard programs, though a lot more of the former in my experience than the latter.
     
  15. USMC71

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  16. Squire Robertsson

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    All things considered,

    For a long time I've wondered why folks haven't applied the same standards to Brother Gothard as they've applied to others. I think its because for years he taught what folks wanted to hear. Now it seems he has begun to loose his old audience and is now reaching out to a new one.

    Another problem I've had with the man is\was his uncritical partnership with the Russian Ministry of Education. My father in law spent two years in a Soviet prison. So, I don't trust the Kremlin any farther than I can toss it.
     
  17. Dale-c

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    Wow, handling the Word Of God Deceitfully. I would quite agree!

    Check out this link:
    http://www.midwestoutreach.org/02-Information/02-OnlineReference/04-Etc/01-TheJournal/Volume3/No4-BillGothardsEvangelicalTalmudPt1.html

    I read this and then just found out that my wife had one of his books from his seminars. I went through that article and looked some of the things in the book and I was amazed! He is even more of base than I thought!
    Character First is a teaching of idolatry. I was in it for three months and had alll I coudl take!

    My dad has said many times that he used to see young preachers preaching from Gothards Manuals.
    Seemed to be common at one time.
    Very sad.
     
  18. thjplgvp

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    re:I am in the process

    USMC71 said, "I am in the process of seperating from a brother who is involved with teaching the Character First Curriculm to lost people. It seems he is more interested in creating moral people that regenerated. By teaching these principles, he is hiding the light and giving a false hope. He is handling the Word of God deceitfully".

    One of the things to keep in mind is that Gothard it is a "para-church' organization and like Focus on the Family they have bought into a reformed humanity and not a regenerated in order to put their name before the multitudes. They believe that the more avenues open to them the more impact they can have. I believe at the heart of their thought process (but do not know) they believe in the idea of friendship evangelism or that one degree of enlightenment will lead a person to the next step of enlightment which is gnosticism disquised.

    Biblically I would say the wounds of a friend are faithful but the kisses of the enemy are deceitful. Iron sharpeneth Iron if you are truly friends then tell him and if he gets angry be prepared to love him anyway. Don't lose your temper and don't back down. Speaking the truth in love.

    just my thoughts brethren
     
  19. USMC71

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    Gnostic Bill

    Gnostic teaching is right. His teachings are really no different than Buddhism. The more you learn, the more light you have. I am a missionary to a closed field and live around Buddhist principles everyday, we do not need it in the Lord's churches.
     
  20. Milady

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    I was into the whole Gothard movement from the age of 15. I have done the character first in one of our local schools, and have seen nothing good come out of it.

    After knowing all that the Gothard ministries teaches, if your friend does not respond with a still stronger friendship, God will not bless him.
    Milady
     

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