Birth defects

You believe God then is imperfect, and His creation was created imperfect? How sad...

God also blessed His creation. The phrase "good" in Hebrew (tobe) is an adjective with a wide range of meaning, including "the best". When applied to God, it can only mean the best. What kind of blessing would it be if it was created imperfect? Man was also created in God's image...which is perfect.

 

webdog,

Nowhere did I even imply that God is imperfect.

I said one cannot improve perfection.

God constantly added to creation, thereby improving it, and called it good each day.

Yet, it was not until the last day that God called that which He created, 'very good'.

 

God also blessed His creation. The phrase "good" in Hebrew (tobe) is an adjective with a wide range of meaning, including "the best". When applied to God, it can only mean the best. What kind of blessing would it be if it was created imperfect? Man was also created in God's image...which is perfect.

 

Gina,

Nowhere did I state that man is not responsible for his sin.

Joseph Botwinick

 

==Joseph since you did not reply to this section of my post in the other thread I will repeat the points I made there.

Before the fall God called His creation "good" (vs10,12,21,25) and "very good" (vs31). Man and animals were eating plants and not each other because there was no death (not physical and not spiritual). God created a very good world. It was only after sin that suffering entered the picture (Gen 3:16-19, 4:8-10). This suffering includes humans, animals, and the entire creation. Humans now eat animals, animals now eat each other. This was not occuring before the fall (Gen 2:29-30, Gen 9:3). The idea that any form of human suffering occured before the fall, before sin, is unorthodox. The Bible simply does not allow for that.

Now you had attempted to say that Romans 8:18-22 was only about spiritual suffering. In fact what you said was:

My reply was/is simply to review the passage point by point:

You are saying that Romans 8:18-22 is only talkiing about spiritual suffering? Let's see if that holds up:

"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory this is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation itself was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set from from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now." Romans 8:18-22

What terms did Paul use?
1. "the creation"
2. "the creation itself was subjected to futility"
3. "the creation itself also will be set from from its slavery to corruption"
4. "the whole creation groans"

Clearly Paul is talking about "the whole creation" not just humans spiritual condition or spiritual suffering. Paul is saying that ALL of the creation was subject to slavery to corruption. All means everything.

Now when was all of God's creation subjected to slavery? At the fall (Gen 3). Romans 8 refers to "the whole of creation" suffering due to its slavery to corruption and not just human spiritual suffering. Your explanation falls way short of acceptable on this matter.

Denying the effects of the fall (ie..sin) on human suffering is error. Saying that God created a world with suffering (birth defects, cancer, asthma, AIDS, flu, alzheimer's, other diseases...) and death and then called that world "good" and "very good" some five times is a gross misunderstanding of Scripture. Not to mention a gross misunderstanding of God Himself. Notice that when God creates the new heaven and earth all of those things will exist no longer:

Why is all of this true? Because the curse is gone (Rev 22:3). This curse that will be lifted in the new heavens and earth was placed on the creation at the fall (Gen 3:17, ect.). You are denying the broad effects of the fall.


Martin.