Bishop & Deacon (dis)qualifications

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by ktn4eg, Dec 4, 2004.

  1. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    1
    Being fairly new to the Baptist Board, I don't know if these aspects of what's mentioned in II Timothy 3:1-13 have been previously covered. However, I would like to read your input and would appreciate your supplying specific NT scriptures to support your position.

    1) Can a single, never married, man qualify as a bishop or deacon? He is NOT the husband of one wife is he?

    2) Can a married man without children qualify as a bishop or deacon? He cannot have his children in subjection if he has no children can he?

    3) Does a bishop or deacon with unruly children disqualify himself for that position? Most discussions I've read say little or nothing about this, but Paul spends more words on this than he does on a bishop's or deacon's marital status.
     
  2. Todd

    Todd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of course he can qualify, that is if none of the other requirements disqualify him. To say otherwise would mean that Paul, John the Baptist, and even Jesus Himself would not meet the qualifications for a bishop or deacon. Do we really want to go that way? The qualification about a man being the husband of one wife has to do with a man's faithfulness within marriage, and not whether or not he actually is married. Now, answering can the question of can a divorced man be a Pastor or deacon - there's a debate waiting to happen.

    The qualification about a man having his household/children in all subjection doesn't mean that a man without children can't be a Pastor or deacon. Again, you would be ruling out Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, etc. This has to do with a man who has children - it would bear no weight against a man who has no children.

    Now here's a real question. I adamantly believe and teach that a man who doesn't have his children (and wife for that matter) in a lifestyle of subjection has no business being a Pastor or deacon. The problem with this one is how do we define "unruly," because all kids are going to misbehave from time to time. I think we have to look at several things:

    1. Do the children respect their father?
    2. Is he able to demonstrate that he parented in such a way that his children recognize his authority?
    3. Does he allow his children to smart-off and disrespect him without some type of immediate discipline?
    4. Does he practice corporal punishment (spanking) on his kids as the Bible commands (Prov. 13:24), or has he gone the way of the psycho-babblers?

    On this one, if a Pastor with an unruly children has demonstrated that he is not willing to deal with the situation, then I think the church better start seeking the leadership of the Holy Spirit in regard to its Pastor. For after all, "if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God" (1 Tim. 3:5)? Same applies to deacons as well.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I will be the minority here, but I don't think a man who is not married and does not have a wife/family in subjection can have the maturity and judgment of an elder.

    Pick up stones and start throwing them.

    I Tim 3 says a "one woman man". This implies that if he has a woman, it is one. It is NOT an imperative that he MUST have one.

    Same with children. These are not imperatives that he MUST have kids (it is imperative that if he DOES have kids, they must be godly/subject)

    That said, I still question the "elder" who is an immature kid, unmarried, with all the answers and attitude of a teen. Okay, they may not describe YOUR pastor, but it is the product we are seeing from some of our bible "colleges".
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    -not to mention that it would be difficult for a man who has not the experience of marriage and his own family to connect with those he would minister to.

    (It would be difficult, but not impossible.)
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    He is not the husband of one wife, which is OK since that is not what Paul said anyway. He said "one woman man" which means a man characterized by faithfulness to one woman. It means that he is not a womanizer, a flirt, too familiar with the women who are not his wife. It does not require that a man be married; it requires that he be blameless in his relationships with women.

    These two go together. A man with no children can be qualified to pastor. The point is to illustrate his godly leadership and management skills. If he has children that are unruly, then he is disqualified because he is a bad leader and communicator of spiritual truth. As with the wife, it does not require that he have children; it requires that his life be in order and that he is leading those around him spiritually.

    The issue in being an elder is not age but maturity. Is a man mature in his life?

    To the point about connecting with members, that will be a problem no matter how old or what experiences the pastor has. A 60 year old man who raised kids in the 70s has no idea what raising kids today is like. A 40 year old with three superbly behaved children cannot identify with a 65 year old grandmother. In other words, I think that is a non-issue.

    It is also a call to get people involved in ministry. There is no reason for one pastor to try to identify with all those people. He should be training others to minister to them.
     
  6. joyfulkeeperathome

    joyfulkeeperathome
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do think the pastor should have his family in subjection. That being said, I feel that my dad is disqualified, and yet he continues to be the pastor of our church - there's nothing I can do about this. But I do know this much, I wouldn't go to him for marriage counseling or advice on how to raise children....

    Sometimes you don't always get the ideal situation, but life goes on....there is no one more qualified that is willing to do the job...
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    The case that immediately comes to mind is that of Dr. Peter Ruckman, twice divorced, thrice married. Since I don't know the circumstances of his divorces, I cannot blast him for this. But as all you board vets know, I DO blast him...not just over his advocacy of the false KJVO myth, but for FALSE PROPHECY, unChristian namecalling, and his false claims for "advanced revelation" in the KJV, a position similar to that of Mormon guru Joey Smith with his Book of Mormon.(I don't believe KJVO in & of itself will condemn anyone, but it's like letting a cat loose in a dog pound...eventually there's gonna be a ruckus.)

    I don't believe we oughtta throw stones over a divorce unless we know all the circumstances. If there's a prob within a "pastor" himself, I believe his "fruits" will eventually give off his true "odor". Just ask Swaggart.
     
  8. rjprince

    rjprince
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,

    Would generally agree that most men who are not married and do not have kids would not have as much maturity as those who do. However, other factors in the list do address the level of maturity in a bishop/elder/pastor – “vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous...” The “immature kid, unmarried, with all the answers and attitude of a teen” is addressed to some degree by these, and certainly by “novice” and “lifted up with pride” in verse 6.

    Joyful, go easy on your dad. No one but a Pastor can fully understand all the stress, strain, and burden that a ministry can place on a family. Do not know you or your situation, but do know that at 48 years old now, and after nearly 25 years in fulltime ministry, with three kids that have turned out pretty well, it is much more DUE to God's grace than my parenting skill. And, my churches have generally allowed me to take the time and effort needed to be a Father as well as a pastor. Maybe your dad did not have a good friend to help balance out the struggles. Maybe he was taught that Pastors can never show any weakness to anyone. Who knows for sure? Certainly not me, again, only by God's grace. But please, love him and forgive him. If God wants to take him out of the ministry, He can. Please FORGIVE me if I have overstepped, but just felt impressed to respond. Also, feel free to message me if you want and I will respond by e-mail.

    Others,

    Would also agree with most of the other comments by others on points 2 and 3. Would not agree that 1 rebellious child would NECESSARILY disqualify a man from ministry as bishop/elder/pastor. There has only been one PERFECT FATHER. There has only been one perfect environment. There have only been THREE PERFECT children – Adam, Eve, and Jesus. Two of three were rebels. Just a few thoughts...

    [ December 08, 2004, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: rjprince ]
     

Share This Page

Loading...