BJU and the NAE

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by aefting, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. aefting

    aefting
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    Thought I'd take this out of the PCC thread...

    Well, to begin with, I would say that before ~1950, fundamentalism concerned itself with separation from modernism and apostasy. The movement known as fundamentalism began before BJU but the Joneses were certainly a part of the movement, even if they were not key players in its origination.

    I can't finish my thoughts right now because I have to go to church, but I will continue later when I get a chance.

    Andy
     
  2. Greg Linscott

    Greg Linscott
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    I love this history stuff! [​IMG]

    If we are splitting hairs like this with BJU and the Jones, remember that Riley's life legacy was one of attempting reformation from within rather than separation (even though I believe he expressed regret for his inaction later in life).

    Many of Fundamentalism's leaders had ties to both sides during the birthing of the "New Evangelicalism." David Otis Fuller, leader in the GARBC and pastor of Wealthy Street Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan- without argument historically fundamental separatist BAPTIST organizations- attended Princeton Seminary, had J. Gresham Machen in his wedding, and held Sunday School contests with M.R. Dehaan's Calvary Church. Fuller was a long-time member of the Board of Directors at Wheaton College, before he finally left- not over New Evangelicalism's infiltration, but over their adoption of modern versions (not trying to open a can of worms there- leave it for the Version Threads).
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Jones Jr was at one time a vice president of the NAE and John R Rice was also involved. They tried to steer the NAE is a good direction but ultimately lost the battle and withdrew. There is no question about whether BJU would have been the first neo-evangelical school. It most assuredly would not have. Jones Jr along with some others tried to shape the NAE towards a more orthodox, separatist position.

    One of the faults of the NAE was that there was no "enforcement" method for their doctrine. All you had to do was sign the statement to be a member. They could not kick you out if you really didn't believe the doctrine. As a result the usefulness of the NAE was short lived.
     
  4. aefting

    aefting
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    To continue with what I was saying, fundamentalism began as a reaction against modernism and liberalism. It wasn’t until about 1950 when fundamentalists began to take stands against the New Evangelicalism. It is easy to look back today and see issues clearly, but back then I suspect there was a lot of confusion. And, as indicated by the actions of the Joneses with the NAE, separation was not the first thing on fundamentalist’s minds. Eventually, I believe it became apparent that separation was the right and Biblical thing to do. Perhaps the Lord used the conflict with the NAE to help the Joneses gain some discernment over what the movement was all about. As Larry said, though, I don’t think there is any question that BJU would not have gone down the New Evangelical path. Perhaps, if BJU had had more influence with the NAE, then they and Fuller might not have left fundamentalism as quickly as they did. But in reality, as we know, the whole purpose for Fuller and the NAE, was to create and promote New Evangelicalism. Fundamentalism never had a chance.

    Greg – my Dad grew up in Grand Rapids and went to Wealthy Street Baptist Church during Dr. Fuller’s heyday. The man who does the Uncle Charlie children’s program, Charlie VanderMeer, was influential in getting my Dad to go to BJU back in the 50’s. My Dad has lots of interesting stories to tell about Dr. Fuller.

    Andy
     
  5. Greg Linscott

    Greg Linscott
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    Andy,

    That is really neat. See your PM...
     
  6. swaimj

    swaimj
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    If my memory serves me, the term "new-evangelical" was not coined until Carl F.H. Henry used it and defined it. I think he did that in an article in 1956. Prior to that, the National Association of Evangelicals COULD NOT have been "new evangelical" because there was no such thing! Therefore, BJU's membership in the NAE in the fifties does not mean that they were "new-evangelical" nor "new-e" sympathizers.

    All fundamentalists struggled with how far to go before separating from first, liberals, and second, new-evangelicals. Different fundamentalists separated at different times and for different incidents. The fact that they did separate is what, at least in part, marks them as fundamentalists.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Marsden (Reforming Fundamentalism) attributes the term to Ockenga, who coined it in the 50s. He was the president of Fuller at that time.

    What is interesting is that they coined it about themselves. They declared that they wanted to be a "new kind of evangelical." It was an acknowledgement that the fundamentalists were the original evangelicals, and they wanted to be a new kind of evangelical to distinguish themselves from the old kind.

    The NAE started in 1942 and teh battles that the Jones' and Rice and other fought over separatism was in that era. Jones, Jr was very active in it in the 40s and was one of hte two vice-presidents in 1950. Sometime in the early 50s, they withdrew over the separatism issue.
     
  8. Greg Linscott

    Greg Linscott
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    We sometimes forget it was originally the self-proclaimed New Evangelicals who distanced themselves from Fundamentalism, not the other way around. History shows that it was not the parting was not over doctrinal matters, but methodological ideology. I was just reading a quote from Edward Carnell, one of the early leaders of the New Evangelical movement and prof. at Fuller. He refers to fundamentalism as "cultic orthodoxy," with disdain for those who separate over matters of truth.

    While the focus of this thread began with BJU, also note that men like Bob Ketcham of the GARBC also had early ties with some of the same people. McIntire and the ACCC have been mentioned- as I understand, the GARB men were not always comfortable with him either.

    There is a good article called "The Evangelical Drift" here (http://www.faith.edu/seminary/faithpulpit/1987/december1987.htm) that contrasts some of the tendencies of the New Evangelicalism with Historic Fundamentalsim. Although it is a few years old (1987), the words still ring true today.
     
  9. aefting

    aefting
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    In reading about all this again, I was browsing through David Beale's In Pursuit of Purity and came accross this statement:

    What's interesting about that statement (published in 1986) is that even true blue Fundamentalists today are concerned about being associated with that term. In some ways, it (i.e., 'fundamentalist') has never been a positive term as viewed by its detractors.

    Andy
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    All Fundamentalists, past and present, are Evangelicals.

    But it is the Fundamentalists that disdain the term "evangelical" (or esp "new" evangelical). I think the new breed of Fundamentalists will emphasize their evangelical fundamentalism.
     
  11. aefting

    aefting
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    But ironically, and because of new evangelicalism, today's evangelicals can't even agree on what it means to be an evangelical. :eek:

    We may distain the term but at least we know what it means!

    Andy
     
  12. Greg Linscott

    Greg Linscott
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    Again, history documents that it was the self-proclaimed "New Evangelicals" that disdained the Fundamentalist moniker. While my generation of Fundamentalists are drifting from our roots, this is not a generally positive thing, IMHO. We should seek to discover the truth through careful study, but we should not be so quick to reject the application of personal holiness in living, for example. Corruption can be so insipid, but it is a real threat that we must be on guard against. We must have balanced ministries, but within that balance of ministry to the saints and evangelizing the lost we must not leave out the also important mandate to earnestly contend for the faith.
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    See topic on "The Roots of Fundamentalism" in the [duh] Fundamental Baptist forum thread here on the BB. [​IMG]
     

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