BJU Made the News Again ... in an unlikely place

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Pastor Larry, Mar 20, 2004.

  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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  2. Rosell

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    Interesting that the article reports the students and faculty won't be watching, because the movie is rated R.

    I had a roomate in college who had transferred from BJU. Apparently there are many students there who not only ignore some of the schools more noted prohibitions, but spend a lot of time developing ingenious ways to do as they please and beat the system. He always feared being guilty by association and left partly because of that, and partly because he didn't want to worry about the validity of his degree.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    It is interesting to note that BJU graduates do not seem to have a very hard time getting into top-tiered graduate schools all over this country. From what I have heard, it seems that if they have good grades, they have no problem getting into top schools. I know of BJU grads in law school at Michigan, Harvard, and other top tier schools. There are BJU grads in business schools such as Duke. They are in music schools such as Julliard, Peabody, Harvard, Yale. They are in medical schools such as Michigan State. Each year, they place a large number of graduates in the top accounting firms. A degree from BJU is certainly respected in many of these fields.

    Someone on another board mentioned recently that the top tier schools accept degrees from BJU. It is the middle tier schools that do not. It seems that the worry about validity is for those desiring middle tier schools, or those that perhaps can't really make the grades necessary.
     
  4. Mark Osgatharp

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    A Baptist church in the Greenville area was put on the list of churches which BJU students were not allowed to attend. The church was Landmark in ecclesiology, post-millenial in escatology, and had a plurality of pastors. Of these three issues, which two would you guess earned them a place on the BJU list of "taboo" churches?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  5. Rosell

    Rosell
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    A "list" of churches students aren't allowed to attend? How in the world do they enforce that?
     
  6. jshurley04

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    Most Bible Colleges have a Christian Life Ministry (CLM) obligation of the students in which, amoung other things, they must report their church membership and attendance each week. They also must have an active ministry in that church as fulfillment of their CLM requirment. They do not receive a credit but do recieve a grade in which if they do not pass each semester, they can refuse to allow them to recieve their diploma or even walk the stage. :(
     
  7. Rosell

    Rosell
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    The Christian college I attended had a Christian Service hours requirement for graduation. But the service could be perfomed in either the student's local church, or their home church, since many students went home on the weekend.

    It sounds like a lot of "Bible Colleges" have some control issues with their students. Our Christian Service hours were pretty much left up to the integrity and trust of the students, and I can't recall any incidents in which students tried to get out of doing it. In fact, many of the local churches found that they often had more volunteers than they needed.

    Is the administration of BJU so insecure about its students that it has to come up with a list of churches they can't attend or serve? Don't they trust their students to do the right thing?
     
  8. Greg Linscott

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    It's not a matter of trust, but of developing discretion- a teaching opportunity, if you will. For most of the students, this is the first time they've actually been able to choose a church themselves, an they may not understand exactly what to look for. A list gives them a good place to start. My Bible college required us to attend a Baptist church.

    The approach of many fundamentalist schools, too, is too set the standards high- make certain choices for them going in, such as BJU's movie attendance policy cited in the article. Many campuses also have rules about dating, leaving campus, curfews, and so on- much stricter than their secular and even evangelical counterparts. However, the students know that going in (or should, at least). I, for one, have absoluitely no problem with it.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    The reasoning behind it is far different than what Mark posted. There is, to my understanding, no longer such a list. More to the point, we must understand that not all churches are obedient churches. There is nothing out of bounds about refusing attendance. In fact, we should refuse to attend churches that are unbiblical. It is not about insecurity at all. Is a parent insecure because they make rules for their children? Of course not. We would all laugh at such a ludicrous argument. We should recognize the fallacy of it right off. Rules are not about insecurity. They have other purposes. Standards and rules assist in the development of godly character and help to prevent stupid choices. Why should we complain about that?
     
  10. freeatlast

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    Because of BJU past stance on race relations and its refusal to openly condemn the practice I stand totally against the university. They are a shame to be associated with in my opinion.
     
  11. Mike McK

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    Agreed. BJU is a blight on the church.
     
  12. gb93433

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    What was their stance?
     
  13. freeatlast

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    What was their stance? </font>[/QUOTE]They held strong racist standards and would kick any one out of their university who dated or married someone black. It was their written policy. Thye have since changed that due to great pressure but never admitted it was wrong.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    Freeatlast,

    You are completely and utterly wrong. Your open disregard for the truth is far worse that BJU's alleged wrong. While I might disagree with BJU on a great many things, I have no need to resort to that type of accusation. Neither should you.

    BJU has never held racist standards. They did prohibit interracial dating until several years ago when that policy was changed.
     
  15. freeatlast

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    Pastor Larry,
    that is a strong accusation you have made against me. What would you call refusing to allow someone to date or marry someone of another race if that was not racist standard?

    Here is a letter from BJU that shows their hypocracy as well as their blindness.They have never reepented of this although they no longer practice this.

    08/31/98 Letter from Bob Jones University

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Effective March 3, 2000, Bob Jones III has rescinded the ban on interracial dating. This letter no longer reflects current policy and is provided for information purposes only.


    BOB JONES UNIVERSITY
    Greenville, SC 29614-0001
    864-242-5100
    Admissions Office 1-800-BJ-AND-ME


    August 31, 1998


    Mr. James Landrith
    P.O. Box 8208
    Alexandria, VA 22306

    Dear Mr. Landrith:

    Thank you for your phone call requesting information concerning interracial relations here at Bob Jones University. The University has an open admissions policy, and we accept students of any race. The student body is fully integrated with all students participating in all activities and organizations regardless of race.

    Bob Jones University does, however, have a rule prohibiting interracial dating among its students. God has separated people for His own purpose. He has erected barriers between the nations, not only land and sea barriers, but also ethnic, cultural, and language barriers. God has made people different one from another and intends those differences to remain. Bob Jones University is opposed to intermarriage of the races because it breaks down the barriers God has established. It mixes that which God separated and intends to keep separate. Every effort in world history to bring the world together has demonstrated man's self-reliance and his unwillingness to remain as God ordains. The attempts at one-worldism have been to devise a system without God and have fostered the promotion of a unity designed to give the world strength so that God is not needed and can be overthrown.

    Although there is no verse in the Bible that dogmatically says that races should not intermarry, the whole plan of God as He has dealt with the races down through the ages indicates that interracial marriage is not best for man. We do believe we see principles, not specific verses, to give us direction for the avoidance of it.

    The people who built the Tower of Babel were seeking a man-glorifying unity which God has not ordained (Gen. 11:4-6). Much of the agitation for intermarriage among the races today is for the same reason. It is promoted by one-worlders, and we oppose it for the same reason that we oppose religious ecumenism, globalism, one-world economy, one-world police force, unisex, etc. When Jesus Christ returns to the earth, He will establish world unity, but until then, a divided earth seems to be His plan.

    Of course, we realize that this is controversial position and that there are many fine Christians who disagree with us on it. We recognize the right of other Christians to hold differing views; we only hope that they will recognize the sincerity and love with which we hold ours.

    Christian students of all races find a happy and harmonious atmosphere here at the University, and the number of minority students grows every year. We believe prejudice to be Biblically wrong, and it is not tolerated in the student body.

    I trust this information is helpful to you. Kind regards.


    Sincerely yours,


    Jonathan Pait
    Community Relations Coordinator

    http://www.multiracial.com/letters/bobjonesuniversity.html
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    It was a standard. Standards are not "racist." Racism has to do with unfair treatment of people on the basis of their race. It is unequal treatment of people. That was not the case. To my knowledge, the black students at BJU have always been allowed to do every thing that white students can do. There are not separate eating facilities, separate dorms, separate grading systems, or any such thing.

    My accusation was strong because your statement was strong. To totally stand against the university for something that is not even true is an unjust stand.

    I disagree with BJU on a number of issues. But they are real issues, such as theology.
     
  17. freeatlast

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    This what BJU used as an excuse for racism.

    Interracial Dating and Marriage
    Why is the focus being placed on something which is such a small and insignificant part of the University's whole, making it a media obsession? The last two or three generations of students who have graduated from this institution never once heard a discussion of this policy. It is not something that is preached or talked about. Because of its insignificance to us, it has been dropped in the interest of the greater good of the University's Gospel and Christian educational mission.

    This institution, offering more than 110 academic majors, produces men and women of character and trained intellect of the sort employers need and scarcely find today. We have a wholesome, disciplined, kind, and joyous student body. Racism and hatred are not part of our institutional character. The media has missed the point. Instead of exulting in the freshness and academic importance of the school, they have magnified something that we don't magnify and never discuss.

    Was Bob Jones University's interracial dating policy the issue, or was its right to hold the policy the issue?

    Since most people of all races choose to marry within their race, this furor against Bob Jones University seems totally disproportionate. The noise comes from but a strident few with personal agendas.

    If the people of all races who chose to attend Bob Jones University under the former policy had no problem living under it, why should the world at large care?


    Does Bob Jones University look down upon interracially married couples? No.


    Does the University believe that those who choose interracial marriage do so out of rebellion against God? No. It does believe, however, that often the promoters of it do so out of antagonism toward God because they are often the same entities that promote homosexuality, abortion, and other forms of social radicalism.

    Bob Jones University's policy regarding interracial dating was more of an opposition to the rebellious and defiant antichrist spirit of the promoters of one-worldism than to interracial dating itself. Many who date and marry interracially are just as opposed to one-worldism and the spirit of Antichrist as we are.

    Does the University believe one race is superior to another race? No.

    Are you aware that our 1998 Alumni Appreciation Award recipient was a black BJU graduate?

    Are you aware that our current student body president is an Asian-American? Would that happen at a racist school?

    Did the University’s dating policy originate to regulate black-white relationships? No. It was first stated in the mid-1950s when dealing with an Asian-Caucasian dating couple.

    http://www.bju.edu/aboutbju/special_articles/response/index

    If you notice BJU claimed that those who marry ourside of race are equal to those who promote homosexuality, abortion, and other forms of social radicalism. This school is not God led with that type of attitude. Until they repent and make an open apology with confession that those who adopted such policies were wrong and stood against God's will the university is evil and a disgrace to the name Christian.
     
  18. Greg Linscott

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    freeatlast,

    I would guess that I have more room to gripe than you do on this one. My parents are an Asian-Caucasian couple. I considered attending BJU, but at the time their dating policy was still in effect. I had my pastor at the time check into things for me, and was told that I would have to declare myself either "Asian" or "Causcasian." I chose to look elsewhere.

    Since the ban has been dropped (in a national forum on Larry King Live, no less), I have visited the campus on several occassions. I have always found the people to be more than well-mannered, gracious, and receptive. I have never felt "singled out" in any way. While I don't agree at all with the former policy and the basis for scriptural justification of it, I was more than satisfied with Dr. Jones III explanation of why it was being dropped.
     
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Greg
    that is fine. I never suggested that someone could not hold a personal view about this. However for me I do not accept the explanation given. To me it was nothing short of hypocracy. You can be sure of this one thing. When a Catholic uses the same reasoning for their error they are called on it. I am calling BJU. as a baptist, not a Catholic and would not support them in any way unless they denounce what has happened as being wrong by those who imposed it.
     
  20. aefting

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    Perhaps you should read their document more closely. That is not at all what they claimed. The paragraph that you are referring to talks about those who promote agressive social activisim, not those who simple date or marry outside their race. In fact, the very next paragraph says specifically, "Many who date and marry interracially are just as opposed to one-worldism and the spirit of Antichrist as we are." You are, in fact, very wrong about what they said and the spirit behind their previous rule.

    Andy
     

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