BJU?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Window Wax, Dec 13, 2004.

  1. Window Wax

    Window Wax
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    Being from the Upstate region of South Carolina, and considering local schools, what would your choice be?

    Some I have condsidered are:

    BJU (although I have heard some bad things)
    Tabernacle (although I have heard some bad things)

    Any opinions?
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    For those of us who know nothing of these, is Tabernacle a Baptist school? Accredited? Full program, including sports? Local church oriented?

    We know BJU isn't any of these (although times they are a'changing).

    I don't know what "Tabernacle" is or why one would consider such. Take a minute and update us. Most know BJ.
     
  3. Window Wax

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  4. gb93433

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    Tabernacle Baptist College looks very weak in languages. If you are going to go to school go to the most rigorous school you can find. A school should never let you graduate with a Masters without a certain proficiency in Hebrew and Greek.

    From what I saw it was nothing more than a dumbed down Bible school if that.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Tabernacle is a local church Bible college. You should avoid that at all costs. It is the school of the former Harold Sightler. He was an old "camp meeting" type preacher ... lots of yelling and jumping around. The congregation was very loud in their "Amens" and "Hallelujahs" and a lot of other stuff that had nothing to do with the message of Scripture. IT was big on emotionalism and little on content. I don't know if it has changed. I believe they are also KJVOnly. I would stay away from that.

    If you are trying to stay in the upstate and go to a Christian college, BJU will give you a good liberal arts education, plenty of opportunity to get involved in ministry in one of the local churches of the area, and a decent Christian atmosphere. They are not as Baptistic as they could be, though they are very supportive of the local Baptist churches. Few, if any, Christian colleges will give you as many opportunities for ministries in the local church.

    North Greenville College is southern Baptist I believe, and I heard recently that it had taken a turn toward the conservative. I don't know for sure.
     
  6. paidagogos

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    Man, anybody who knows can tell right off, this ain’t right! This is an outsider peeking through the keyhole. It ain’t “yelling and jumping around”—it’s hollering and shouting!

    And, nobody hollers “Hallelujah”—it’s “GLOREEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    I bet ole Larry was a BoJo’er who visited Tabernacle and was amazed at the lively service. It shore wuz a long way from Dr. Bob in his wig (before he discarded it) and robe on Sunday morning! The cultural shock must have just been too much for the ole boy.

    BTW, Dr. Sightler preached in BJU chapel. (No problem between BJU and TBC except the students at both places who told lies about the other place. I’ve heard them from both directions.)
    A very biased opinion! What would anyone from MI know about a Southern school? It’s rather like a hick from Arkansas visiting Paris—everything’s done “quare” over there. (Hear about the old Quaker sitting in his broadcloth suit and broadbrim hat on the front porch with his wife as they watched the traffic go by. He said, “My dear, hast thou noticed how queer everyone in the world is except thou and me? And my dear, sometimes even thou art a little bit queer.”

    One size doesn't fit all.

    Tabernacle Baptist College began as a Bible institute under the ministry of Dr. Harold Sightler. Dr. George Dollar (Ph.D. Boston Univ., taught at Dallas, BJU, Piedmont, Pillsbury, & Central) once said that Dr. Sightler was one of the greatest living Bible preachers and teachers. Now, it’s a matter of whose opinion you are willing to believe. Although there was an element of emotionalism, typical of fiery Southern preaching, Dr. Sightler built a solid work at Tabernacle. He was eminently a Bible preacher and teacher. Although the school is not given to intellectual pretensions, it is solid and has produced some wonderful preachers along with the usual percentage of kooks. Don’t be turned on or off by what someone else thinks. Dr. Melvin Aiken is presently pastor and head of the school.

    Opinions usually run something like this: “If I like it and it fits within my narrow prejudices and style, then it’s good; otherwise, it’s bad” People can be so little and narrow in their opinions.

    BJU, of course, has been roundly discussed and cussed on this board. It’s not Baptist even though there is a strong independent Baptist presence there. Overall, I would say that it averages more toward the Bible church movement—that’s Baptist without the capital B. Accreditation has not been a tremendous problem in getting accepted to grad school—it depends on the individual more than his alma mater.

    North Greenville has made tremendous strides under Epting. Under his predecessors, Neeley, Silver, et. al., the school had fallen away to almost nothing. The only students were local folks or people who could not get into another college. Now, it is booming with excitement and interest spilling over a large geographical area. The academic standards are up as well as the enrollment. They are continually adding new buildings. Whereas the Bible faculty was once the usual muddled mix of Bible believers and half-way skeptics, the whole Bible faculty now believes in inerrancy and inspiration. On the other hand, most of the Bible faculty is Reformed in theology as is a growing minority in SBC circles. This has caused some controversy when the graduates went out to pastor local churches and began preaching Reformed doctrine.

    In sum, the best choice for you depends upon your own personal beliefs, goals, and direction. If you are SBC, then NGC is a good option especially if you’re going to pastor or do evangelism in SBC churches. On the other hand, if you are looking to work in rural independent Baptist churches in the South, then TBC is an excellent choice. There are independent Baptist churches in the South that will not allow missionaries, who are BJU graduates, to speak in their church. (I know specific instances.) On the other hand, TBC graduates are treated like royalty. If you move in BJU circles, then BJU is an excellent choice. BJU gives as good quality education as anywhere but even BoJo has turned out its duds.

    Do I know what I am talking about? Yes, I know from first hand experience and I have connections in all three places. You can believe the local guy from Dixie or the other guy from Yankee-land. (They do seem to know-it-all up there.) It's up to you. ;)
     
  7. paidagogos

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    Although you used derogatory terms (dumbed down), what do you really know? Where are your priorities? Taking your statements at face value, I suppose you would recommend Harvard Div. or possibly Universität Tübingen? Perhaps Yale? Duke? BTW, this is assuming that one is quite intellectual. Somehow, I really don’t think God is overly impressed with one’s intellectual prowess. What are your intellectual pretensions?

    You know, there are just a bunch of average Joes out there who will go to some Bible institute or Bible college and spend a lifetime of service for God. Souls will be saved, believers will be edified, and God will be glorified by an average life. Praise God! Then, there are the intellectual religious jackasses.
     
  8. paidagogos

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    Yep, that's what they believe and practice. They are seeking to honor and glorify God! More power to them. What's wrong with them living a strict and orderly life?
     
  9. Window Wax

    Window Wax
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    "What's wrong with them living a strict and orderly life?"

    Absolutely nothing wrong with it, however, I do believe their should be limits to the rules... I am nearly 22 years old. I have been married for three years, and I have a two year old daughter. I maintain my own house, and pay my own bills... Yet, if I were to choose TBC, I would be treated as if I were a child. Their rules include, basically, that all students must attend THEIR church... Must sing in THEIR choir... (Did I mention that I dont like to sing in public, I'm very shy?)... Etc Etc... I dont mind the dress code, after all, I attended Heritage Christian School in Gaffney, SC from 6th grade till High School graduation.

    By the way, most of the teachers from my school were BJU graduates, and so was the principle...

    However, I know a pastor that graduated from TBC, and he knows what he is doing as well... That's why I find it hard to pick.
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Tabernacle sounds more like a typical Bible Institute than a full-fledged College.

    I didn't link Tabernacle with Sightler. I knew Bro Sightler and was always slightly entertained by his preaching.

    I am NOT a supporter of schools that attempt to clone out the style of its founder on all its "preacher boys". Many of my colleagues at Pillsbury BBC were so influenced by Monroe Parker.

    Others by Vineyard, Hyles, Ron Comfort and a host of other "strong" voiced preachers who started clone colleges. NOW say that, I have no idea of that is what Tabernacle WAS or IS - but it raises a question in my mind. Maybe someone with knowledge of this place can bring me up to speed!

    Thanks.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    I never was at Tabernacle. I have heard it on the radio many times. I was being nice by calling it yelling and jumping around. It was actually quite worse than that, thought it may be different now. It is a local church Bible college and the education you will get there will be inferior to a liberal arts education. I am sure that there are some fine men who have gone through there. It simply wouldn't be my choice. I think a good liberal arts education with a solid seminary degree is the minimum for a man who wants to pastor.

    It was intereseting that paidogogos said I was a BoJe'er who visited Tabernacle and then said I was from MI and couldn't know anything about the school. I wish he would make up his mind ... :D ... or not forget what he said in the previous paragraph. Everything else he said, except for his comments about Tabernacle, were pretty much what I had already said.

    But he did make a comment that reflected something I thought about earlier today after my first post, when he talked about "fiery preaching" typical of southern preaching. Why is it that we do not believe there is enough power in the simply presented spoken word of God to do its work? Why do we have to jump around, raise our voices, beat on the pulpit, run the aisles, etc? We rightly criticize churches who use emotional things such as music, humor, and "user friendliness" to attract people, but then let this kind of nonsense off the hook because it stirs our emotions. It seems a little bit inconsistent to me.
     
  12. Window Wax

    Window Wax
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    I'm not clear on some of Bob Jone's practices, such as:

    http://www.biblefortoday.org/Updates/open_letter.htm


    (Hey, what do you know, conflict between TBC and BJU.......)


    And I quote:

    "Tell them that though you preach from the King James Bible in your chapel services, your Greek and Bible department Greek text undermines the King James Bible’s New Testament text in 5,604 places, thinking that 2,886 Greek words should not be translated by the King James Bible, and that (based on your Westcott and Hort kind of Greek text used in your classes) you believe the King James Bible has 356 passages that contain doctrinal errors. Go ahead and really tell the truth about what is going on in some of the classrooms of Bob Jones University!"


    ... What do y'all think?
     
  13. Broadus

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    Window Wax,

    What are you looking for in your education? If it's the ministry, I would have to go where I could get training in biblical languages. I know several men who went to North Greenville and then did seminary at Southern in Louisville, KY, and they spoke highly of NGC.

    I had an hour-long "get acquainted" meeting with Bob Jones III this afternoon and was impressed with his graciousness and all-around knowledge. I don't think you'd go wrong with either NGC or BJU. I reserve judgement on Tabernacle since I have no firsthand knowledge of it.

    BTW, I am pastor of an SBC-affiliated church in Clinton.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  14. Window Wax

    Window Wax
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    "BTW, I am pastor of an SBC-affiliated church in Clinton."

    I'm currently living in Laurens, we just moved here and are looking for a church... Clinton is just right down the road. Send me a PM if you don't mind, and we might come check out your church.


    "What are you looking for in your education?"

    Ministry, yes... I feel God is calling me to be a pastor. I have felt that way for many years, though I am still trying to discern whether or not I might be mistaken... After all, I'd hate to do something that I'm not really called to do.


    "I don't think you'd go wrong with either NGC or BJU"

    I think BJU is not as far of a drive for me as NGC, especially since I currently work in Simpsonville. Also, I know where BJU stands doctrinally, but I don't know much about NGC.

    My main problem, and this is why I would consider Tabernacle, is that I don't have a lot (or any) free money after I pay my bills every month. BJU and NGC are expensive compared to TBC. Actually, you can pay monthly payments at TBC, which would help me tremendously.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    D A Waite is a KJVOnlyist who has made some unfortunate attacks on BJU and other Bible believers. BJU's position is the position of historic evangelical Christianity, namely, that God preserved his word in the multitude of manuscripts. They use the eclectic text in their Bible department because it is the best text to use for the study of God's word in Greek. They use the KJV in their chapel and classrooms for the sake of uniformity and for the supposed beauty of hte KJV English.

    Waite's charges are misguided. He is inaccurate in his Bible position in a number of areas. He has been discussed many times on the Versions forum.
     
  16. Broadus

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    FWIW, I completely agree with Pastor Larry's assessment of Waite.

    Bill
     
  17. Window Wax

    Window Wax
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    I greatly appreciate the advice everyone has given me here. I do have one other question though.

    How did those of you who started Bible College after you were married and had children manage to afford tuition, books, and other expenses?

    I have a great desire to go to school, I just don't have the finances to do so at the moment...


    Thanks,
    Jeremiah
    aka Window Wax
     
  18. Paul33

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    paidagogos,

    You crack me up. Having lived in the south, you have stated the southern stereotype of northerners exactly.

    Southerners think that Northerners act like they know it all. But if you have ever lived in the south and seen their backward ways, poor road construction, engineering, traffic signs, etc., you would immediately know that Southerners indeed are a breed apart.

    That's why they think we Northerners are know it alls. The truth is, we just know alot more than Southerners do! [​IMG]
     
  19. Paul33

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    I've been to the tabernacle when I attended BJU.

    Yep. They run around the aisles hooting and hollering.
     
  20. swaimj

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    I grew up in independent Baptist churches in NC. "Shouting" was considered an expression of spirituality. Most of the preaching that provoked this behaviour was quite shallow. Dr. Harold Sightler was one who promoted this type of thing. However, despite the theatrics from the audience that often accompanied his sermons, Dr. Sightler was head and shoulders above others of this type in the quality of his preaching. He did not ramble or "shoot from the hip". His preaching usually consisted of a running commentary through a passage followed by a conclusion which summarized the passage and an application of that summary. His preaching was inductive long before that concept gained the prominence it has today. Because his sermons often centered around the re-telling of a biblical story, they were interesting and his applications were relevant. While I do not recommend his school, for anyone who is interested in homiletical form Dr. Sightler would be an interesting person to study.

    Two anecdotes about Dr. Sightler: My grandfather, late in life, listened to Dr. Sightler on the Bright Spot Hour one afternoon, got on his knees and got saved. I, for one, am willing to cut Dr. Sightler some slack.

    In 1972, my father was pastoring a church. He went to a fundamental fellowship and heard Dr. Sightler. Afterward, my father approached Dr. Sightler and asked him to come to our church and hold a revival meeting. Dr. Sightler said "Call my secretary and she will give you a date". My father called the secretary and was given a date for July--July of 1979! Dr. Sightler was booked ahead for seven years! He was a pretty popular preacher in the south.
     

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