Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by gb93433, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
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    I am curious how Calvinists tie in the issue of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit with their theology.
     
  2. Frogman

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    I do not know how others believe in relation to this, but I can tell you my belief.

    Jesus was accused of the Jews of casting out demons by the power of the Devil.

    He stated concerning this that which is known as the unforgivable sin. Note that he said all manner of sin shall be forgiven, but this sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

    This passage was spoken to Israel because of the unbelief in him as the promised Messiah.

    Biblically, the dilemma many try to impose upon this passage never occurred. In this, IMHO, the sin is limited to national Israel.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  3. Me2

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    there is 2 kinds of Blasphemy
    against man..forgivable in this age
    against God. unforgivable until the end of this age and next. although ultimately judged and pardoned. (works completely destroyed?)

    all men blaspheme. they confuse the attributes of God and man. or God and satan. satans attributes can be confused with being from God and Gods attributes can be confused with being from satan.
    conclusion lack of knowledge from Gods perspective of Good and Evil. and this can only be attributed as not containing the spirit and knowledge of Christ. we can easily conclude this with those in the camp of vessels of wrath.

    Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

    either we are a vessel of mercy or a vessel of wrath. the fruit expose us.
    distribute mercy or judgement
    represent truth or error
    love God or fear God

    blasphemy against God in this case is a clear confusion of the attributes of satan and God.
    which brings with it a predestined and prolonged exposure to being held in this role.
    a vessel of wrath will be held in this state of ignorance during this age (world) as well as the next age (world).

    we can call these guys false prophets as the evidence is clearly seen as they overtly proclaim their ignorance to the general public.
    Blasphemy can be lumped with all other sins within the vessel of wrath. in our bible it is written of as another clear ensignia within the whole nature of the vessels of wrath.

    just as the vessels of mercy cannot blaspheme God.
    their predetermined nature is to love God and his creation.
     
  4. Frogman

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    Me2,
    Thank you for that reply. I can agree with what you said as much as I am able to understand it.

    Most of the time, I think, that is our difficulty with one another, our understanding of the other's meaning through language.

    God does not have this difficulty in understanding our meanings and motives.

    May God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  5. Me2

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    How about this, (Im sure this will cause you to cringe...)

    if we attribute hatred to God, what is our fruit?

    if we say. your going to hell cause your doing this or that. we attribute error concerning the actions of man. (forgivable see Mat 5:22))..

    yet if we say God is going to burn you in hell forever and forever cause your doing this or that.

    are we not confusing the attributes of God with satan?

    we sure are..

    (what does that say to the need and purpose of eternal torment? and is this activity attibuted to God or satan?) [​IMG]

    What does one do with this question.?
    Do we call it Blasphemy? and are we mixing up the attributes of satan and God?
    Do we teach this in error?

    maybe its time to do a little pruning on our trees
    [​IMG] [​IMG] ;)

    Me2
     
  6. Frogman

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    Where is the 'cringing' smilie???? I can't find him, here goes.... :eek:

    I do not attribute eternal torment to action, nor lack of action on the part of man.

    Where does the Bible say any will be turned out from the Lake of Fire? That is my understanding of the spatial location of eternal torment?

    Show me where death and hell give up their dead, then show me where the Lake of Fire gives up its spiritual dead.

    Thanks for your discussion, you do make me think sometimes. I see the appeal of universalism, but not the witness of scripture to it.

    May God Bless
    Bro. Dallas...no longer cringing [​IMG]

    BTW, it is getting near to spring time around here we have temps. of 68 degrees today.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    Blasphemy of the Spirit was attributing the casting out of demons by Christ to the power of Satan. It cannot be committed today.
     
  8. Frogman

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    Thank you Pastor Larry, that is also my belief concerning this concept.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Me2

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    Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
    Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies?Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

    blasphemies against who? Against God?

    Was the pharisees presuming that jesus had powers that could only be attributed to God?

    the pharisees are thinking that Jesus is cosigning the attributes of God to himself and they are calling it blasphemy.
    blasphemy of Jesus "words" overagainst God.

    (cosigning the attributes of God to man/satan)

    Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

    Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

    these "jews" mentioned in revelations are stating they are jews "inwardly". by reason of circumcision of the heart. they lie. they still follow their own self righteousness. they are not joined with God. they are still joined with satan. they blaspheme God by the very words coming out of their very mouths..even in their thoughts!..

    again cosigning the attribute of God
    (knowledge,mercy,works,rightepousness) to man
    God states their blaspheming aginst him

    Blaspheming is an attitudenal position as is all sin against God.
    these are trees wanting you to think they produce good fruit among the bad that God is identifying.

    blasphemy is alive and well on planet earth. We hear people all around saying their "christians" having been circumsised by the heart and their attempting to play Gods people as fools. Lying.

    Psa 62:4 They only consult to cast [him] down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.

    Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    As I stated previously. Blasphemy is against God, His creation and specifically vessels of mercy.
    it is one one of many ensigns of the vessels of wrath.

    ***

    Frogman, next study is the lake of fire. (whats a metaphorical discription of God?
    Heb 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.
     
  10. Me2

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    Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
    Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies?Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

    blasphemies against who? Against God?

    Was the pharisees presuming that jesus had powers that could only be attributed to God?

    the pharisees are thinking that Jesus is cosigning the attributes of God to himself and they are calling it blasphemy.
    blasphemy of Jesus "words" overagainst God.

    (cosigning the attributes of God to man/satan)

    Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

    Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

    these "jews" mentioned in revelations are stating they are jews "inwardly". by reason of circumcision of the heart. they lie. they still follow their own self righteousness. they are not joined with God. they are still joined with satan. they blaspheme God by the very words coming out of their very mouths..even in their thoughts!..

    again cosigning the attribute of God
    (knowledge,mercy,works,rightepousness) to man
    God states their blaspheming aginst him

    Blaspheming is an attitudenal position as is all sin against God.
    these are trees wanting you to think they produce good fruit among the bad that God is identifying.

    blasphemy is alive and well on planet earth. We hear people all around saying their "christians" having been circumsised by the heart and their attempting to play Gods people as fools. Lying.

    Psa 62:4 They only consult to cast [him] down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.

    Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    As I stated previously. Blasphemy is against God, His creation and specifically vessels of mercy.
    it is one one of many ensigns of the vessels of wrath.

    ***

    Frogman, next study is the lake of fire. (whats a metaphorical discription of God?
    Heb 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.
     
  11. micahaaron

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    Why does Blasphemy of the Spirit fall away with the last apostles? It's not a spritual gift you know, like anti-charismatics would like to do away with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

    None of the bible authors under the Holy Spirit ever said that Blasphemy or Gifts will cease.

    MA
     
  12. Frogman

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    Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1 Cor. 13.8 (the Apostle Paul).

    Concerning the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit having passed away; this sin is spoken is specifically spoken by Jesus to the Jews and to my knowledge is not taught by the Apostles. If you find it where the apostles do teach it please show me.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. Me2

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    If there are two kinds of spirits.
    righteous and unrighteous.

    whenever one spirit mischaracterizes the other.
    it can be called blasphemy.

    man is either a representative of satan or a representative of God. for man contains one or the others spirit.

    when man maligns God. mans (representing satans) spirit maligns God.

    Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

    blaspheming will stop when the last opposing spirits attitude is no more.

    whether man is intelligent enough to recognize it or not. the maligning must continue until all works of evil is covered over or destroyed.

    and as Frogman has stated. the last enemy of evil is the lake of fire.
     
  14. Me2

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    double post.
     
  15. micahaaron

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    Bro. Dallas,
    Your scripture from 1 Cor 13:8 is ironic.
    Knowledge has not ceased! Since knowledge has not ceased, then both prophecy and tongues are then present till this day with knowledge.

    If the Apostles failed to mention it has ceased, then are we too interpret more than what the Word says. If we do that, are we not arguing from silence, whether it doesn't exist or it does exist. I am pointing out that what is written still stands, until we get another Word from the Apostles to supercede the prior, than the present word stands, that is, it has not ceased.

    For me to find extra scriptures outside the Gospels account of Jesus's words to substantuate this position is a moot point. The Gospels in the NT are written for the edification for both Jews and Gentiles, for the obediance of both.

    MA
     
  16. Frogman

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    Thank you for pointing that out. I do agree, knowledge has not ceased. But I believe Paul is speaking of the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit as operating on the Apostles. this means then that knowledge seeking to understand the scriptures of the OT has ceased because Christ has opened these up and has developed them through the teachings of the Apostles.

    I know you may not agree, but in this understanding there is no argument from silence.

    God bless
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  17. micahaaron

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    Bro. Dallas,
    Hermenuetics is frustrating subject. You believe this, I believe that. I found this subject of Blaspemy interesting in light of this Calvinism/Arminian debate. Of course, the subject got carried away from the calvinist point from the 1st post.

    How does find unity with another in a complicated subject we disagree on?

    MA
     
  18. Frogman

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    I don't understand your question here. Are you asking how we can find unity since we disagree over this complicated matter? Are you calling the passing away of these gifts complicated, or the hermeneutics?

    Does the Bible require our unity when we disagree on a subject like this?

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  19. micahaaron

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    Bro. Dallas,

    I don't understand your question here. Are you asking how we can find unity since we disagree over this complicated matter? Yes

    Are you calling the passing away of these gifts complicated, or the hermeneutics? Yes, because of everybody seems to have a different opinion, or different interpretation. Who has the absolute perfect interpretaion on whether gifts are for today or it has ceased?

    Does the Bible require our unity when we disagree on a subject like this? Yes, the letter to the Phillipians and Epheisans in various chapters and verses expresses the notion of unity amongst the brethren. With Truth itself, no. With working with another to have unity, yes.


    MA
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    It didn't. Its possibility ceased with the ministry of Jesus on earth.

    As for 1 Cor 13, those gifts (prophecy, knowledge, and tongues) are revelatory gifts. Therefore, with the closing of the canon, they ceased. Knowledge is not simply knowing something. It is receiving knowledge from God. We have that today in Scripture.

    As for unity, there are core doctrines (what I call load bearing doctrines without which the house of Christianity falls in) and then there are peripheral doctrines (which I like to the front door -- it is not necessary but neither is it good to be without it). We can agree to disagree about the front door doctrines. We cannot agree to disagree about the load bearing doctrines. We find unity by agreeing on core doctrines and granting liberty on others.
     

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