Bleedback of a US Imperial Wound

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    In Spanish, the word hondura means “depth; profundity.” The related word hondo means “deep, low; bottom.” Hondon means “dell, glen, deep hole.” An example given in my dictionary is meterse en honduras, “to go beyond one’s depth.”

    Read More At: http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/2373
     
  2. church mouse guy

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    This is an example of what Obama and the other radicals think. Thinking like this led Ward Churchill to calling for dropping the atomic bomb on the USA. Thinking like this has led Obama into supporting La Raza. The truth of the matter is that the USA has liberty and rights for the individual so that no one wants to live under the oppressive governments south of the border.
     
  3. poncho

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    You left out the most important part CMG.

    They want to come here because of the intolerable conditions the interventionist foreign policy and the "war on drugs" you continue to champion has created south of the border.

    But then you've always gone out of your way to ignore the consequences of the policies you champion. You know what would really be radical? If we tried to help the people in other countries instead of exploiting them for the benefit of a few well connected psychopaths.

    There is a consensus forming against Washington's interventionist policies precisely because of the damage they cause at home and abroad. Better get used to it. People are waking up. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #3 poncho, Jul 17, 2014
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  4. church mouse guy

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    Vote for Hillary, Poncho, because she agrees with you 100%!
     
  5. poncho

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    You and Hillary both believe more intervention is the answer to the problems our past interventions have caused so you are more of a Hillary supporter than I am already. Maybe it's you who should be voting for her.
     
    #5 poncho, Jul 17, 2014
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  6. church mouse guy

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    No, Hillary agrees with your analysis, Poncho. I myself disagree with you and Hillary. The conclusion is that the Democrat Party has already preempted your position, Poncho.
     
  7. poncho

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    I know you've told me before but I must have forgotten . . . what is my analysis again?

    According to your analysis (paraphrased) I'm anti American because I don't believe in unconstitutional wars and regime change and meddling in other nation's affairs to set up "business friendly" dictators and oppressive government's all over the planet is good for America, like you and Hillary believe. That is what you've been telling me these past few years is it not?

    I understand that you are forced to resort to the "mis-characterization" of my analysis (interventionism causes more harm than good) after having utterly failed at turning history on it's head to fit your red white and blue paradigm so I'm not taking anything you say to me personal. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #7 poncho, Jul 17, 2014
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  8. church mouse guy

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    By your analysis, I limit it to the link you gave at the start of this thread. Hillary, Ward Churchill, and others would agree with your link. The Democrats own the issue that you raise, Poncho.
     
  9. poncho

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    My analysis is very simple. The interventionist policy you and Hillary have consistently championed has caused us more harm than good. History proves it above and beyond any "leftie vs rightie" slurs you can aim my way.

    My guess is that you've finally run of out of excuses for even more interventionism. That's the way of the neocon, when all else fails claim your opponent is an anti American "leftist" and a danger to the country for not going along with more of the same insanity. I would have thought a man your age would have grown a bit wiser than that by now . . .

    Call me what you will CMG it isn't going to change the history that has already proven you and Hillary wrong. You can deny it all the live long day but you can't change it.
     
    #9 poncho, Jul 17, 2014
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  10. church mouse guy

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    I haven't called you anything, Poncho. You are the one who linked the site, not me. I am thinking of calling you a Democrat, however.
     
  11. poncho

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    Well now that wouldn't be the first time would it?

    You seem to prefer that to an honest thoughtful discussion of our long bloody interventionist past. Can't say as I blame you really as it shows how ill conceived and executed the policy you and Hillary champion has been for decades under both democratic and republican administrations.

    You've already shown you'll do just about anything to avoid allowing such a discussion to take place. So . . . I'll leave you with this, people are waking up to the insanity of meddling in other's affairs despite your best efforts to continue on the same path. :wavey:
     
    #11 poncho, Jul 17, 2014
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  12. church mouse guy

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    I don't think that I could persuade you in a discussion where your viewpoint is already preempted by Hillary and the other Democrats. You already have a party that champions your viewpoint, Poncho. You cannot expect the GOP to agree with Hillary and you on this issue.
     
  13. poncho

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    No more than I could expect the GOP and Hillary to heed the many warnings of our founders in respect to the dangers of foreign entanglements and bloody interventionism.

    If nothing else you, the GOP and Hillary have proven them all right by ignoring their advice on such an important matter. Not once, not twice, not three times . . . every time.

    I guess the appeal of bigger profits for their campaign donors and more control over other's lives and resources is to great a temptation for our corrupt corporatist political class to heed sound warnings.

    Thankfully people are waking up to how dangerous and insane the interventionist foreign policy you, the GOP and Hillary champion is.

    That's probably why the GOP, Hillary and you will go on the offensive to malign Rand Paul and any other person who takes the founder's warnings seriously every chance you get.
     
    #13 poncho, Jul 17, 2014
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  14. church mouse guy

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    I don't know how the Obama/Hillary foreign policy differs from the Libertarian foreign policy but I do know that your link is critical of the Reagan foreign policy so I assume that you are against the Reagan foreign policy in Latin America. I myself am a Taft Republican and I disagree totally with the Libertarian foreign policy. It is curious that your link quotes an article in a socialist magazine.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Muslims do not hate us because they see us interfering in their land. It is not about our foreign policy. They hate us because they want to dominate us and they cannot. They hate us because we are not muslim. They are the worlds KKK.Plain and simple.
     
    #15 Revmitchell, Jul 17, 2014
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  16. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    It isn't really curious at all.

    Ponch's agenda is a cadre of non-existent conspiracies that he nonetheless has "proof" of: Shadow governments, "corporatist rule," and elites who are very small in number but somehow manage to manipulate the complex sociopolitical actions and attitudes of 7.3 billion people. Socialists love to feed extremist conspiracy frenzies among Americans. :rolleyes:
     
    #16 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jul 18, 2014
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  17. poncho

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    It's true very rarely do I put any trust in the "official narrative" but only because it's been proven over a period of time to be either fabricated, contrived or based on little to no evidence at all.

    My agenda? Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by getting back to a limited constitutional government.

    Their agenda? Depends on what the consolidated (five networks SEE THIS and THIS) corporate owned and controlled media feeds them on any given day.

    But usually it ends up having to do with more debt, a bigger more intrusive government and another unconstitutional "kinetic military action" in a poverty stricken but resource rich country that hasn't got the capacity to put up much of a fight.

    BTW, Ronald Reagan was a limited government conservative not a neocon. He like so many other conservatives of his day considered the neocons to be insane. Hence the term "the crazies".

    Why would you all even consider listening to people Reagan considered insane?
     
    #17 poncho, Jul 18, 2014
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  18. InTheLight

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    ROFL! Says the person that reveres Alex Jones and InfoWars!
     
  19. poncho

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    I'm just assuming the above post is another well researched thought out fact filled argument.

    When all else fails, well do the usual. Shoot the messenger, demonize, and question another's faith in Christ because they don't hold with either the leftie's or rightie's version of unconstitutional lawless big government.

    Oh and did I mention, the attempt to derail this thread has been noted? :laugh: :applause:
     
    #19 poncho, Jul 18, 2014
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  20. poncho

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    John Stockwell, former CIA Station Chief in Angola in 1976, working for then Director of the CIA, George Bush. He spent 13 years in the agency. He gives a short history of CIA covert operations. He is a very compelling speaker and the highest level CIA officer to testify to the Congress about his actions. He estimates that over 6 million people have died in CIA covert actions, and this was in the late 1980's.

    John Stockwell is the highest-ranking CIA official ever to leave the agency and go public. He ran a CIA intelligence-gathering post in Vietnam, was the task-force commander of the CIA's secret war in Angola in 1975 and 1976, and was awarded the Medal of Merit before he resigned. Stockwell's book In Search of Enemies, published by W.W. Norton 1978, is an international best-seller.

    "I did 13 years in the CIA altogether. I sat on a subcommittee of the NSC, so I was like a chief of staff, with the GS-18s (like 3-star generals) Henry Kissinger, Bill Colby (the CIA director), the GS-18s and the CIA, making the important decisions and my job was to put it all together and make it happen and run it, an interesting place from which to watch a covert action being done...

    I testified for days before the Congress, giving them chapter and verse, date and detail, proving specific lies. They were asking if we had to do with S. Africa, that was fighting in the country. In fact we were coordinating this operation so closely that our airplanes, full of arms from the states, would meet their airplanes in Kinshasa and they would take our arms into Angola to distribute to our forces for us....

    What I found with all of this study is that the subject, the problem, if you will, for the world, for the U.S. is much, much, much graver, astronomically graver, than just Angola and Vietnam. I found that the Senate Church committee has reported, in their study of covert actions, that the CIA ran several thousand covert actions since 1961, and that the heyday of covert action was before 1961; that we have run several hundred covert actions a year, and the CIA has been in business for a total of 37 years.

    What we're going to talk about tonight is the United States national security syndrome. We're going to talk about how and why the U.S. manipulates the press. We're going to talk about how and why the U.S. is pouring money into El Salvador, and preparing to invade Nicaragua; how all of this concerns us so directly. I'm going to try to explain to you the other side of terrorism; that is, the other side of what Secretary of State Shultz talks about. In doing this, we'll talk about the Korean war, the Vietnam war, and the Central American war.

    Everything I'm going to talk to you about is represented, one way or another, already in the public records. You can dig it all out for yourselves, without coming to hear me if you so chose. Books, based on information gotten out of the CIA under the freedom of information act, testimony before the Congress, hearings before the Senate Church committee, research by scholars, witness of people throughout the world who have been to these target areas that we'll be talking about. I want to emphasize that my own background is profoundly conservative. We come from South Texas, East Texas....

    I was conditioned by my training, my marine corps training, and my background, to believe in everything they were saying about the cold war, and I took the job with great enthusiasm (in the CIA) to join the best and the brightest of the CIA, of our foreign service, to go out into the world, to join the struggle, to project American values and save the world for our brand of democracy. And I believed this. I went out and worked hard....

    What I really got out of these 6 years in Africa was a sense ... that nothing we were doing in fact defended U.S. national security interests very much. We didn't have many national security interests in Bujumbura, Burundi, in the heart of Africa. I concluded that I just couldn't see the point.

    We were doing things it seemed because we were there, because it was our function, we were bribing people, corrupting people, and not protecting the U.S. in any visible way. I had a chance to go drinking with this Larry Devlin, a famous CIA case officer who had overthrown Patrice Lumumba, and had him killed in 1960, back in the Congo. He was moving into the Africa division Chief. I talked to him in Addis Ababa at length one night, and he was giving me an explanation - I was telling him frankly, 'sir, you know, this stuff doesn't make any sense, we're not saving anybody from anything, and we are corrupting people, and everybody knows we're doing it, and that makes the U.S. look bad'.

    Read More At: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm
     

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