Blinding Their Minds to the Gospel

HP: Hi Darrell. I know you sent me another post as well that I have not addressed.

As I see it, you confuse abilities with opportunity. Man has every 'ability' necessary to receive light, if he will. He well may not have had the 'opportunity' to hear it. If man lacks ability, and God has to 'do something' to enable the ability to respond, you establish double predestination. Some are granted the ability and others never had any possibility of coming to the light. Is that what you believe?


Furthermore, If they lack 'ability,' why are they condemned? Most leaning hard towards Calvinism or Calvinists themselves, tend to say that the rejection of Jesus Christ is the damning sin. If God withholds 'abilities' from some, they could not reject that which they had no ability to accept.

Can you explain yourself further? Thanks!

 

I addressed your argument in the most direct way it can possibly be addressed.

SPIRITUAL DEATH is becoming DEGENERATE in spirit. It is SEPARATION from the life of God (Eph. 4:18). It is the condition of the unregenerate heart that cannot percieve, cannot see, cannot hear (Deut. 29:4).

However, according to your logic you can be spiritually dead but still without a unregenerated heart (Deut. 29:4).

The evidence that spiritual blindess is inseparable from an unregenerate heart is Deuteronomy 29:4 and Epheisans 4:18

Deut. 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

 

Calvinists like to use the scriptures of people being hardened as proof of Calvinism, but those passages really disprove Calvinism. God hardened many of the Jews so that they could not hear Jesus and believe. Just the fact that some were hardened that alone should show a Calvinist that people have the ability to believe. Do Calvinists think that God created people unable to believe from the beginning, but that was not good enough so that God had the need to harden them more down the road?

The Bible says people do not believe because the god of this world has blinded their minds. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

People don't believe because they love darkness instead of light.

"men loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil." John 3:16. That is what the Bible says about unbelievers, that scripture is not about everyone, it is about unbelievers. Calvinists say that all, even after hearing about Jesus still love darkness instead of the light, until a special enabling of the Holy Spirit to make us believe. However, that is not what the scriptures say.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we are born without being able to believe on our own. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say we are all totally depraved. Do you want to believe God’s word? On the other hand, do you want to believe man’s assumptions?

 

Welcome Moriah!:applause:

 

Thank you so much, Heavenly Pilgrim!

 

What don't you get about SPIRITUAL DEATH being INCLUSIVE of spiritual blindness, spiritual deafness, lack of spiritual perception????

YOu want to make Spritiual death one thing and spiritual blindness another thing separate and distinct from each other in time.

At the precise moment Adam sinned Adam spiritually died and at the precise moment Adam spiritually died Adam became spiritually blind, deaf and without spiritual perception! That is the condition of a degenerate heart and Deut. 29:4 and Ephesians 4:18 prove it!.

 

Sun Light softens butter but hardens clay. The light is the same but the nature of the substance upon which the light shines is different. Jesus says the lost degenerate man hates the light and will not come to the light (Jn. 3:19-20) because his deeds are evil. The unregenerate heart is like clay, light only hardens it (Rom. 1:18-31).

In contrast, the regenerate heart is like butter. The more you expose the regenrate heart to the light the more it is softened.

The unregenerated heart is "veiled" because it cannot bear the light but is like the Children of Israel who withdrew from the light on the face of Moses.

 

The Biblicists said: Sun Light softens butter but hardens clay. The light is the same but the nature of the substance upon which the light shines is different.

My reply: I would call that “human wisdom,” and we know what Jesus says about humans’ wisdom.

The Biblicists said: Jesus says the lost degenerate man hates the light and will not come to the light (Jn. 3:19-20) because his deeds are evil. The unregenerate heart is like clay, light only hardens it (Rom. 1:18-31).

My reply: Romans 1:18-31 are more scriptures that prove Calvinism is false. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities---his eternal power and divine nature---have been CLEARLY SEEN, being UNDERSTOOD from what has been made, so that men are WITHOUT EXCUSE. See Romans 1:20.

The Biblicists said: In contrast, the regenerate heart is like butter. The more you expose the regenrate heart to the light the more it is softened. The unregenerated heart is "veiled" because it cannot bear the light but is like the Children of Israel who withdrew from the light on the face of Moses.

My reply: Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that God causes us to believe by a special enabling of the Holy Spirit, nowhere.

 

Romans 8:7 and 1 Cor. 2:14

Can you find anywhere in that passage of verses 18-31 that ANYONE ever responded to the light except by rebellion??? No you can't! Light hardens clay!

There is no gospel revealed in nature an so there is no need of spiritual perception but only mental rational perception and perception of conscience. Light is sufficient to judge but not to save and NONE in this context responded to what light they rationally understood but rather opposed it - light hardens clay.

God does one better. God gives us a new heart and a new spirit which "cause" us to obey:

Ezek.. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Philip. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

The Biblicist said: Romans 8:7 and 1 Cor. 2:14,

My reply: Concerning Romans 8 says: 5 Those who LIVE ACCORDING TO THE FLESH have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The MIND GOVERNED by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The MIND GOVERNED by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
In addition:

WE DID NOT COME TO KNOW CHRIST WHILE WE WERE INDULGING IN IMPURITY...we came to know Christ when we HEARD of him and were TAUGHT, with regard to our former way of life, to put off our old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of our minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. See Ephesians 4:18-24.

Concerning 1 Corinthians 2:14: The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
We do not even have to understand the word of God when we first hear of it. Lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths (see Proverbs 3:5-6). We do not even have to have understanding! We believe, then when we receive the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit teaches us.

The Biblicist said: tHCan you find anywhere in that passage of verses 18-31 that ANYONE ever responded to the light except by rebellion??? No you can't! Light hardens clay!

My reply: See Titus 1:2; and, 3:7. We have HOPE of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.
We long for an immortal physical body, we desire, we hope for the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we turn to God and are saved. See Romans 8:23-25.

Through Jesus, we believe in God, because God raised Jesus from the dead and glorified him--So our FAITH and HOPE are in God. Read 1 Peter 1:21. We too want eternal life.

We DRAW near to God because of a better HOPE given us than that of the law; we hope in the perfection we receive through Jesus. See Hebrews 7:18, 19.


The Biblicists said: There is no gospel revealed in nature an so there is no need of spiritual perception but only mental rational perception and perception of conscience. Light is sufficient to judge but not to save and NONE in this context responded to what light they rationally understood but rather opposed it - light hardens clay.

My reply: The world’s wisdom is foolishness to God (Matthew 11:25; Luke 10:21; 1 Corinthians 1:7, 19-21, 25-27; 2:1, 4-7, 13; 3:18,19; 2 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:8, 17; Colossians 1:9; 2:3; James 1:5; 2 Peter 3:15).

The Biblicist said: God does one better. God gives us a new heart and a new spirit which "cause" us to obey: Ezek.. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Philip. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

My reply: God does this for people who BELIEVE and WANT to OBEY.

 

All you have done is confirm what I said. All lost men have minds governed by the flesh.

What was Saul of Tarsus doing on the road to Demascus? Seems to me he was in progress to Demascus to kill, persecute and jail Christians when Christ intervened and saved him in spite of his plans.

Didn't Paul say that God justifies "the ungodly" (Rom. 4:5)??

I think you better reread that verse again? "does not accept them"?????

That is the problem. Lost people HATE the light and neither come to the light and until their WANT TO is changed they will continue to HATE the light and neither come to the light.

God must give them a new WANT TO and that is what the heart is all about. Did you notice that God had to give them a new heart and new spirit IN ORDER FOR THEM to respond obedient to Him??? Compare Ezekiel 36:26-27 to Deuteronomy 29:4. Same people. Same speaker (God). Same subject - the heart. However, look what they are unable to do in Deuteronomy 29:4 until God first gives them a new heart versus what they are able to do in Ezekiel 36:37 AFTER they receive a new heart.

 

The Biblicist said: All you have done is confirm what I said. All lost men have minds governed by the flesh.

My reply:
Isaiah 64:5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,

who remember your ways.

But when we continued to sin against them,

you were angry.

How then can we be saved?

God sent the Savior to those who WANT to do right, but we cannot stop sinning without the Savior. God sent us our Savior!

The Biblicist said: I think you better reread that verse again? "does not accept them"?????

My reply: There are those who do NOT want to accept them. They love darkness instead of light. They CHOOSE to do what displease God, Isaiah 66:4 o I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring upon them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

The Biblicist said: God must give them a new WANT TO and that is what the heart is all about. Did you notice that God had to give them a new heart and new spirit IN ORDER FOR THEM to respond obedient to Him??? Compare Ezekiel 36:26-27 to Deuteronomy 29:4. Same people. Same speaker (God). Same subject - the heart. However, look what they are unable to do in Deuteronomy 29:4 until God first gives them a new heart versus what they are able to do in Ezekiel 36:37 AFTER they receive a new heart.

My reply: The scriptures do not say what you say they say. The Jews were God’s chosen people.

 

I completely understand the human philosphy you present but you did not address the objections I gave. You simply repeated yourself and ignored my responses.

 

Biblicist,
Here are my replies to your comments. I did not mean to re-post my answers. I went back and edited, and brought it here so we can start again.


The Biblicist said: All you have done is confirm what I said. All lost men have minds governed by the flesh.

My reply:
Isaiah 64:5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,

who remember your ways.

But when we continued to sin against them,

you were angry.

How then can we be saved?

God sent the Savior to those who WANT to do right, but we cannot stop sinning without the Savior. God sent us our Savior!

The Biblicist said: I think you better reread that verse again? "does not accept them"?????

My reply: There are those who do NOT want to accept them. They love darkness instead of light. They CHOOSE to do what displease God, Isaiah 66:4 o I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring upon them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

The Biblicist said: God must give them a new WANT TO and that is what the heart is all about. Did you notice that God had to give them a new heart and new spirit IN ORDER FOR THEM to respond obedient to Him??? Compare Ezekiel 36:26-27 to Deuteronomy 29:4. Same people. Same speaker (God). Same subject - the heart. However, look what they are unable to do in Deuteronomy 29:4 until God first gives them a new heart versus what they are able to do in Ezekiel 36:37 AFTER they receive a new heart.

My reply: The scriptures do not say what you say they say. The Jews were God’s chosen people. However, God’s chosen were no different from other people, some wanted to obey God, some did not want to.

 

Pitting scripture against scripture does not help your case. The fact is that scripture clearly teaches that the lost mind will not come to Christ because it is by nature in a state of war against God as these texts clearly state. Change of mind is called repentance and no man can change his own heart and that is precisely why God must give a new heart.

This text does not say "some" are this way. The text says this is the condition of the natural mind which characterize all lost men.

God does not have one plan of salvation for one kind of person and another plan of salvation for another kind of person but the SAME gospel was preached to them as unto us (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:43; 26:22-23) because they had the same problem all men have - a lost depraved nature needing a new heart. Ezekiel 36:26-27 is the New Covenant and is taught in Hebrews 8-10.

 

The Biblicist said: Pitting scripture against scripture does not help your case. The fact is that scripture clearly teaches that the lost mind will not come to Christ because it is by nature in a state of war against God as these texts clearly state. Change of mind is called repentance and no man can change his own heart and that is precisely why God must give a new heart.

My reply: I do NOT pit scripture against scripture. False accusations will not get you anywhere. NOWHERE do the scriptures say that we cannot believe in Jesus after learning of him, NOWHERE. What do you not get about that? If it is not in the scriptures, then it is NOT God’s word. Isaiah 64:5 SAYS there are those who GLADLY DO RIGHT. Stop believing in manufactured doctrines that Calvinists believe. All I ask is that you ONLY believe in the word of God.

Isaiah 64:5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,

who remember your ways.

But when we continued to sin against them,

you were angry.

How then can we be saved?

God sent the Savior to those who WANT to do right, but we cannot stop sinning without the Savior. God sent us our Savior!

The Biblicist said: This text does not say "some" are this way. The text says this is the condition of the natural mind which characterize all lost men.

My reply: The scriptures DO tell us that SOME are this way, and some are NOT. Read what I post, please, and pay special attention to the words highlighted by capitalization. John 3:19 This is the verdict: LIGHT HAS COME INTO THE WORLD, BUT MEN LOVED DARKNESS INSTEAD OF LIGHT BECAUSE THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. BUT WHOEVER LIVES BY THE TRUTH COMES INTO THE LIGHT, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." THIS SHOWS US THAT, LIKE ISAIAH 64:5, THERE ARE THOSE WHO GLADLY DO RIGHT. For more scriptures showing there are SOME, read this scripture, He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—John 1:11-12. JESUS’ OWN WERE THE JEWS, BUT THEY DID NOT RECEIVE HIM, SO ALL WHO DO RECEIVE HIM, HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD.

The Biblicist said: God does not have one plan of salvation for one kind of person and another plan of salvation for another kind of person but the SAME gospel was preached to them as unto us (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:43; 26:22-23) because they had the same problem all men have - a lost depraved nature

My reply: Stop adding to God’s word! The Bible does not say the same plan was preached to them as us EXCEPT GOD ENABLED THEM TO BELIEVE, AS CALVINISTS SAY! THE WORD OF GOD SAYS THE SAME GOSPEL WAS PREACHED TO THEM AS TO US, BUT THEY DID NOT COMBINE IT WITH FAITH! Oh how I love God’s Truth, and I thank God for revealing it to me.

 

There is an excellent read entitled, "Out of Darkness Into Light" by Asa Mahan. He is living proof that even a highly educated and respected leader in Calvinistic circles can come to the light of the truth. There is hope.

 

To that, I say Amen, Heavenly Pilgrim, and Amen.