Bobby talks to his Pastor about God.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Van, Jun 28, 2013.

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  1. Van

    Van
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    Bobby: "Pastor, does God love everybody?"

    Pastor: "Yes, Bobby, even while we were still sinners He demonstrated His love for us.

    Bobby: "How come it says in Romans 9 that He hated Esau?"

    Pastor: "The Bible says that God hates all of us who sin, so since everyone sins (Romans 3:23), God both hates us because we are sinners and loves us in spite of the fact that we are sinners.

    Bobby: “So why did God hate Esau before he had done anything bad?”

    Pastor: "Lets look at Romans 9 and see if God explains it.

    Bobby: “Here it is Pastor, Romans 9:13 say it was written in the OT somewhere that Jacob God loved and Esau God hated.

    Pastor:
    “Bobby, do you see that tiny little “a” just before the word Jacob? That tells us the concordance in that narrow column next to the verse gives us the reference to the OT passage. Look at the column, and find the number 13, indicating the verse, and see what the “a” referenced.”

    Bobby: “Wow, this is fun, real bible study! Pastor it says Mal. 1:2. And I know that Malachi is the last book in the OT. Here I found it. Here is what it says, “I have loved you, says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? declares the LORD, Yet I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.” Pastor I still do not get it!

    Pastor: “Notice the “you” in the phrase, I have loved you? The “you” refers to the nation of Israel, who doubts God’s love. God tells them that they should compare His love of their nation to His hate of Edom, the nation born of Esau. Relatively speaking God hated Esau. Sometimes the Bible uses strong words to highlight a contrast. For example in Genesis 29:30-33, we see that Jacob loved Rachel more that he loved Leah, so much more that scripture says Leah was hated. So we see that since God loves those He has chosen to be a member of His people more than those chosen to fulfill another purpose such as Esau, He can describe the difference in terms of love and hate. But we should not doubt that God loved us even when were sinners, He just loves us way more when we are holy and blameless in Christ.

    Bobby: “Oh I get it now Pastor, God loved Jacob more than Esau, and to show how much more, scripture says God hated Esau. So how does God show His love to sinners, those who are still part of the world, part of fallen mankind.


    Pastor: "Well, he gives everybody rain and sunshine, and he blesses the people of the earth with a conscience so they know right from wrong, and he has given them many gifts which they use to make the world a better and safer place to live. But most important of all, remember that John 3:16 says God so loved the world – and this refers to everybody, and we are all sinners – that He gave is Son so that whoever believes in His shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Bobby:
    “Ok, but if He loves everyone, why does He not save everyone, He could because He is all powerful.”

    Pastor:
    "Yes, Bobby, but His purpose is to choose for Himself a people for His glory. So when we repent and put our trust in Christ, we fulfill God’s purpose for our creation, we bring God glory. If God compelled everyone to come to faith, it would not fulfill His purpose. He has made a covenant of love with us, He has demonstrated His love for us, through Christ, and if we trust in Christ and love Christ with all our heart, God will keep His covenant and choose us to become part of His chosen people.”

    Bobby: But why didn’t God put the gospel in the mind of everyone, like in a vision, so that everyone would have the opportunity to obtain mercy through faith in Christ?”

    Pastor:
    God’s plan of using born again believers to spread the gospel, to make disciples of all nations provides those in Christ with a job, the ministry of reconciliation as ambassadors of Christ. We earn rewards, eternal rewards, when we let God use us to help bring others into the eternal kingdom. Could God have chosen another plan? Perhaps. But we as servants are called to carry out God’s chosen plan, not try and invent another plan where we avoid sacrificing and sharing in the suffering of Christ.

    Bobby:
    "Is it love for God to give people good things for a few years to make them feel comfortable and worthwhile, and then send them to hell?"

    Pastor: "Those who die in unbelief face perfect justice in the afterlife, so providing justice for all is a form of love for all.”

    Bobby: "Is it love to let someone experience something good they will remember forever and always hate God for, because that good thing they loved more than forgiveness?"

    Pastor: "Bobby that is a very important question!" In Romans we learn that everyone is without excuse, because an awareness of God arises from what He has made. And everyone has a conscience, so when people treat others differently than they treat themselves; they violate the law written on their heart. So as they are suffering for their misdeeds, they will regret not living right, and if they heard the gospel, not repenting and trusting in Christ. See Luke 16:19-31 to learn what the actual attitude of those in Hades will be.

    Bobby: "O.K., Pastor. Did Jesus die for everybody?"

    Pastor: "Yes, He gave His life as a ransom for all."

    Bobby: "If Jesus died for everybody, why isn't everybody going to heaven?"

    Pastor: "Bobby, as I explained already, Christ dying for everyone provides the means of salvation for everyone, but in order to receive the reconciliation, we must trust in and be devoted to Christ, and then God keeps His covenant of love and has mercy on us."

    Bobby: "Well, Pastor, you told me that Jesus died for everybody, and that only those who accept him will be saved. So, this means Jesus' death and resurrection cannot save us of itself, but something more is needed, and that something more is what we do by accepting him. For those who do not accept Jesus, they will perish. That means that Jesus' dying for them cannot help them. In fact, it means that Jesus' work for them was a miserable failure. On the other hand, those who accept him make his work real by their acceptance—and they save his work from being a failure. Without us, Jesus, and his work of salvation—would be doomed! If Jesus cannot save us without the permission we give of our own free will, then we are the real saviors, and Jesus is the one we save! Wow! What would he ever do without us?!”

    Pastor: "Bobby, I see that someone has been filling your head with falsehoods. Do not be led astray by the clever stories of men. The reason only those who believe in Him will be saved is that is God’s plan of salvation, whoever believes in Him shall not perish. You know John 3:16 don’t you, Bobby. Do not let anyone tell you differently. Jesus dying for everyone does not help those who die in unbelief, but it does provide the means for them to believe and be saved. Everyone that is saved is saved by Jesus, by the grace of God and not by the will of man. His work of the cross was a complete success; God reconciled all things to Himself. God desires all men to be saved according to His purpose and plan, not according to some fiction made up by men, in a misguided effort to change the gospel.”

    Bobby: "Pastor."

    Pastor: "Yes, Bobby."

    Bobby: "Are you certain about what you just said to me?"

    Pastor: " What do you think, Bobby?"

    Bobby:
    “You believe what you say, and I am grateful because you have opened my eyes and given me much to consider. I praise God for Pastors that care about the truth and care about bringing the truth to lost sinners like me.”

    Pastor:
    Thanks Bobby, God has given us His word and we should live by it.

    Bobby:
    "Pastor, I have one last question. When God put Abraham to sleep, was he telling him what he thought of his human responsibility?"

    Pastor: Where did you get that silly idea? Let’s look at what God actually says. Do you know where the Book of Genesis is located in the Bible?

    Bobby: Yes, it is the first book, the one that lays the foundation for the rest of God’s word. And I even know that the account of Abraham is somewhere in the middle of the book!”

    Pastor: Great Bobby, lets skim through the middle and see if we can find where Abram fell asleep and saw a vision from God. Here it is, Chapter 15:12-16. Abram has put his trust in God and God has credited it with righteousness, but Abram asks God how he will know that he will possess it. God gave him a vision and a sign, the oven and flaming torch. So God displayed His love for Abraham, and made a covenant with him. So God was telling Abraham so Abraham would know his descendents would inherit the Promised Land. The passage records God’s blessings toward Abraham after He credited His faith as righteousness, reinforcing the importance of our responsibility to listen and learn from God.

    Bobby: Thanks Pastor, I have sure learned a lot, but the most import thing seems to be to trust in what God says, rather than in what men say God says. See you Sunday, and try not to spit into the mike.
     
  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    That's more study in one post that some people do their entire lives, Van.

    :thumbsup:
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    In Ben Franklin auto bio, he has a great line about failing to be successful in adding humility to his virtues; he said it was just as well, because if he had, he was sure he would have been proud of it. :)

    Yes, I did study some to pull this together, and to the extent it reflects the leading of the Holy Spirit, to God be the glory.
     
  4. Rippon

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    Perhaps this other perspective of 16 years ago is in order.

    http://defendingcontending.com/2011/10/17/billy-talks-to-his-pastor/

    Billy talks to his pastor
    Posted by Manfred on October 17, 2011 in Bible Reference Notes, Encouragement, Expository Moments, Humor, Theology
    This is a priceless, funny conversation between a humble, inquisitive child (the sort of which Christ tells us His kingdom is made of) and his falsely assured pastor who has – no doubt – been trained at a Southern Baptist seminary.
    Enjoy [​IMG] From: http://thelightheartedcalvinist.com/
    Billy Talks to His Pastor about God

    John Pedersen

    from The Trinity Review, July 1997
    Billy: “Pastor, does God love everybody?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy” (smiles, pats him on the head).
    Billy: “How come it says in Romans 9 that he hated Esau?”
    Pastor: “Been reading your Bible, huh, Billy?” (still smiles). “Well, the Bible also says that God hates, but that only is talking about God’s secret decree, and as far as we are concerned, he loves everybody.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “If God tells us about his secret decree, is it still a secret?”
    Pastor: “Er, well, I guess . . . not, Billy, but I meant that we should realize that there is a way the Bible talks about God’s love for everybody, and that’s what we should think about, not the one or two places where it says God hates.”
    Billy: “Oh. How is it that God loves everybody?”

    Pastor: “Well, he gives everybody rain and sunshine, and he blesses the people of the Earth with a conscience so they know right from wrong, and he has given them many gifts which they use to make the world a better and safer place to live.”
    Billy: “Then he sends most of them to Hell?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “Is it love for God to give people good things for a few years to make them feel comfortable and worthwhile, and then send them to Hell?”
    Pastor: “Well, I . . . yes, it . . . is, I think because it would have been worse if, I mean it would be, um, well, it is, I guess, because he did not send them directly to Hell, but he allowed them to experience his goodness and his provision for his creatures. . . .”
    Billy: “Is it love to let someone experience something good they will remember forever and always hate God for, because that good thing they loved more than forgiveness?”
    Pastor: “Could we change the subject, Billy? I am not sure my answers are satisfying you.”
    Billy: “O.K., Pastor. Did Jesus die for everybody?”
    Pastor: “Why, sure, Billy.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “If Jesus died for everybody, why isn’t everybody going to Heaven?”
    Pastor: “Well, Billy, it’s because not everybody will accept him.”
    Billy: “But, Pastor, I thought Jesus saved us. You are telling me that we save Jesus.”
    Pastor (laughing nervously): “Of course not, Billy! I believe that Jesus saves us completely! However would you get the idea that I believed we save Jesus?”
    Billy: “Well, Pastor, you told me that Jesus died for everybody, and that only those who accept him will be saved. So, this means Jesus’ death and resurrection, what Jesus does, cannot save us of itself, but something more is needed, and that something more is what we do by accepting him. For those who do not accept Jesus, they will perish. That means that Jesus’ dying for them cannot help them. In fact, it means that Jesus’ work for them was a miserable failure. On the other hand, those who accept him make his work effective by their acceptance—they save his work from being a failure. Without us, Jesus and his work of salvation would be doomed! If Jesus cannot save us without the permission we give of our own free will, then we are the real saviors, and Jesus is the one we save! Wow! What would he ever do without us?!”
    Pastor: “Er . . . uh . . . that’s not what I mean. I mean if, it is , I said . . . no, I believe Jesus is the one who does the saving, Billy, it’s just that . . . God has made it so that we . . . are free to acc . . . meaning, we are, are . . . Billy, the Bible is mysterious. It seems to mean certain things, but it doesn’t really, like it says . . . you are using logic, Billy. The Bible is not logical and the truths are not something we can fit into our human minds.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor (now showing a slight frown): “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “When you say the Bible is not logical, does that mean the Bible does not make sense? ‘Cause you made sense when you said the Bible wasn’t logical. I think it was because you used logic that you made sense.”
    Pastor (now glowering at Billy): “No, Billy, I didn’t mean the Bible does not make sense. It does make sense, but just not our kind of sense.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “Why would God give a Bible to us that did not make our kind of sense?”
    Pastor: “Well, Billy, it’s not that . . . I think it’s . . . it makes sense, just does not give us the answers we like to hear, and says things that seem contradictory but really are not, to keep us from asking smart-aleck questions.”
    Billy: “So, God doesn’t make our kind of sense to keep us humble?”
    Pastor: “That’s right, Billy. God wants to keep us humble, so he does not let us think we can be absolutely certain about the things some proud people are certain about.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor: “Yes, Billy.”
    Billy: “Are you certain about what you just said to me?”
    Pastor (showing obvious irritation): “What do you think, Billy?”
    Billy: “I think you just called yourself a proud person, but I don’t know why, ’cause you are so smart and know so much about God, and how much he needs us.”
    Pastor: “Billy, why don’t you go out and play, like the other children?”
    Billy: “Why should I go out and play, when I can stay in here with you and learn how to save God?”
    Pastor: “You need to be careful, Billy. I never said we save God. You are the one who said that, remember. I simply believe our choices are significant, and God does not treat us like robots. He created us to have true human responsibility.”
    Billy: “Pastor?”
    Pastor (now looking quite angry): “This will have to be the last question, young man! I have important things to do and you should be outside playing.”
    Billy: “When God put Abraham to sleep, was he telling him what he thought of his ‘human responsibility’?”
    Pastor (seething): “I have a bad headache, Billy, and I can’t answer any more of your questions, but I can tell you this. Whoever has been teaching you has been telling you things a boy your age should not even be thinking about. It sounds like you have been learning some kind of hyper-Calvinism! You better be careful, young man!”
    Billy: “I don’t know about hyper-Calintisim, but I have been reading these things in the Bible. Thanks for straightening me out. I will try to cut these bad parts out. Can I borrow some scissors?”
    Pastor (rising from his chair): “Get out of here, you, you, you . . . !”
    Billy: “That’s O.K., Pastor. I’ll ask Joey. He was using some good scissors when we were cutting out our ‘friends with Jesus’ pictures for Sunday school. Good-bye.”
    The Trinity Foundation hereby grants permission to all readers to download, print, and distribute on paper or electronically any of its Reviews, provided that each reprint bear our copyright notice, current addresses, and telephone numbers, and provided that all such reproductions are distributed to the public without charge. The Reviews may not be sold or issued in book form, CD-ROM form, or microfiche.
    © 1999-2006 Trinity Foundation
    Post Office 68 — Unicoi, Tennessee 37692
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    Oh good.. now we have made up conversations dueling in this soteriological disagreement.

    Do you guys wake up every morning thinking about how you can disagree with each other?
     
  6. Rippon

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    It is apparent that Van did some liberal borrowing,he didn't do much original studying as he claimed. He just altered enough to come up with his Vanology.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    Taking an attack on God and His word, and turning it into a declaration of truth, is acceptable, a parody of atheist propaganda. Note several of the questions are the same, but most of the responses are from the bible, not atheism. I was providing a defense for what I believe to be the gospel of Christ, not the misinformation of atheism. If I had remembered how I constructed this, I should have included this was a parody of an atheist hit piece found on the internet. My bad.
     
    #7 Van, Jun 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2013
  8. Rippon

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    Billy Talks to his Pastor about God has absolutely nothing to do with atheism. It has a lot to do with your plagiarism though.
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    Parody is not plagiarism in my opinion.
     
  10. Rippon

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    Oh,you set your own definitions again. But Van, based your whole Pastor dialog on the John Pedersen piece without any acknowledgement.
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    The following fictional conversation takes some good questions from an hit piece, Billy Talks to His Pastor about God, by John Pedersen, and provides alternate answers or expanded answers in the form of a parody of the original effort.

    Bobby: "Pastor, does God love everybody?"

    Pastor: "Yes, Bobby, even while we were still sinners He demonstrated His love for us.

    Bobby: "How come it says in Romans 9 that He hated Esau?"

    Pastor: "The Bible says that God hates all of us who sin, so since everyone sins (Romans 3:23), God both hates us because we are sinners and loves us in spite of the fact that we are sinners.

    Bobby: “So why did God hate Esau before he had done anything bad?”

    Pastor: "Lets look at Romans 9 and see if God explains it.

    Bobby: “Here it is Pastor, Romans 9:13 say it was written in the OT somewhere that Jacob God loved and Esau God hated.

    Pastor:
    “Bobby, do you see that tiny little “a” just before the word Jacob? That tells us the concordance in that narrow column next to the verse gives us the reference to the OT passage. Look at the column, and find the number 13, indicating the verse, and see what the “a” referenced.”

    Bobby: “Wow, this is fun, real bible study! Pastor it says Mal. 1:2. And I know that Malachi is the last book in the OT. Here I found it. Here is what it says, “I have loved you, says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? declares the LORD, Yet I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.” Pastor I still do not get it!

    Pastor: “Notice the “you” in the phrase, I have loved you? The “you” refers to the nation of Israel, who doubts God’s love. God tells them that they should compare His love of their nation to His hate of Edom, the nation born of Esau. Relatively speaking God hated Esau. Sometimes the Bible uses strong words to highlight a contrast. For example in Genesis 29:30-33, we see that Jacob loved Rachel more that he loved Leah, so much more that scripture says Leah was hated. So we see that since God loves those He has chosen to be a member of His people more than those chosen to fulfill another purpose such as Esau, He can describe the difference in terms of love and hate. But we should not doubt that God loved us even when were sinners, He just loves us way more when we are holy and blameless in Christ.

    Bobby: “Oh I get it now Pastor, God loved Jacob more than Esau, and to show how much more, scripture says God hated Esau. So how does God show His love to sinners, those who are still part of the world, part of fallen mankind.


    Pastor: "Well, he gives everybody rain and sunshine, and he blesses the people of the earth with a conscience so they know right from wrong, and he has given them many gifts which they use to make the world a better and safer place to live. But most important of all, remember that John 3:16 says God so loved the world – and this refers to everybody, and we are all sinners – that He gave is Son so that whoever believes in His shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Bobby:
    “Ok, but if He loves everyone, why does He not save everyone, He could because He is all powerful.”

    Pastor:
    "Yes, Bobby, but His purpose is to choose for Himself a people for His glory. So when we repent and put our trust in Christ, we fulfill God’s purpose for our creation, we bring God glory. If God compelled everyone to come to faith, it would not fulfill His purpose. He has made a covenant of love with us, He has demonstrated His love for us, through Christ, and if we trust in Christ and love Christ with all our heart, God will keep His covenant and choose us to become part of His chosen people.”

    Bobby: But why didn’t God put the gospel in the mind of everyone, like in a vision, so that everyone would have the opportunity to obtain mercy through faith in Christ?”

    Pastor:
    God’s plan of using born again believers to spread the gospel, to make disciples of all nations provides those in Christ with a job, the ministry of reconciliation as ambassadors of Christ. We earn rewards, eternal rewards, when we let God use us to help bring others into the eternal kingdom. Could God have chosen another plan? Perhaps. But we as servants are called to carry out God’s chosen plan, not try and invent another plan where we avoid sacrificing and sharing in the suffering of Christ.

    Bobby:
    "Is it love for God to give people good things for a few years to make them feel comfortable and worthwhile, and then send them to hell?"

    Pastor: "Those who die in unbelief face perfect justice in the afterlife, so providing justice for all is a form of love for all.”

    Bobby: "Is it love to let someone experience something good they will remember forever and always hate God for, because that good thing they loved more than forgiveness?"

    Pastor: "Bobby that is a very important question!" In Romans we learn that everyone is without excuse, because an awareness of God arises from what He has made. And everyone has a conscience, so when people treat others differently than they treat themselves; they violate the law written on their heart. So as they are suffering for their misdeeds, they will regret not living right, and if they heard the gospel, not repenting and trusting in Christ. See Luke 16:19-31 to learn what the actual attitude of those in Hades will be.

    Bobby: "O.K., Pastor. Did Jesus die for everybody?"

    Pastor: "Yes, He gave His life as a ransom for all."

    Bobby: "If Jesus died for everybody, why isn't everybody going to heaven?"

    Pastor: "Bobby, as I explained already, Christ dying for everyone provides the means of salvation for everyone, but in order to receive the reconciliation, we must trust in and be devoted to Christ, and then God keeps His covenant of love and has mercy on us."

    Bobby: "Well, Pastor, you told me that Jesus died for everybody, and that only those who accept him will be saved. So, this means Jesus' death and resurrection cannot save us of itself, but something more is needed, and that something more is what we do by accepting him. For those who do not accept Jesus, they will perish. That means that Jesus' dying for them cannot help them. In fact, it means that Jesus' work for them was a miserable failure. On the other hand, those who accept him make his work real by their acceptance—and they save his work from being a failure. Without us, Jesus, and his work of salvation—would be doomed! If Jesus cannot save us without the permission we give of our own free will, then we are the real saviors, and Jesus is the one we save! Wow! What would he ever do without us?!”

    Pastor: "Bobby, I see that someone has been filling your head with falsehoods. Do not be led astray by the clever stories of men. The reason only those who believe in Him will be saved is that is God’s plan of salvation, whoever believes in Him shall not perish. You know John 3:16 don’t you, Bobby. Do not let anyone tell you differently. Jesus dying for everyone does not help those who die in unbelief, but it does provide the means for them to believe and be saved. Everyone that is saved is saved by Jesus, by the grace of God and not by the will of man. His work of the cross was a complete success; God reconciled all things to Himself. God desires all men to be saved according to His purpose and plan, not according to some fiction made up by men, in a misguided effort to change the gospel.”

    Bobby: "Pastor."

    Pastor: "Yes, Bobby."

    Bobby: "Are you certain about what you just said to me?"

    Pastor: " What do you think, Bobby?"

    Bobby:
    “You believe what you say, and I am grateful because you have opened my eyes and given me much to consider. I praise God for Pastors that care about the truth and care about bringing the truth to lost sinners like me.”

    Pastor:
    Thanks Bobby, God has given us His word and we should live by it.

    Bobby:
    "Pastor, I have one last question. When God put Abraham to sleep, was he telling him what he thought of his human responsibility?"

    Pastor: Where did you get that silly idea? Let’s look at what God actually says. Do you know where the Book of Genesis is located in the Bible?

    Bobby: Yes, it is the first book, the one that lays the foundation for the rest of God’s word. And I even know that the account of Abraham is somewhere in the middle of the book!”

    Pastor: Great Bobby, lets skim through the middle and see if we can find where Abram fell asleep and saw a vision from God. Here it is, Chapter 15:12-16. Abram has put his trust in God and God has credited it with righteousness, but Abram asks God how he will know that he will possess it. God gave him a vision and a sign, the oven and flaming torch. So God displayed His love for Abraham, and made a covenant with him. So God was telling Abraham so Abraham would know his descendents would inherit the Promised Land. The passage records God’s blessings toward Abraham after He credited His faith as righteousness, reinforcing the importance of our responsibility to listen and learn from God.

    Bobby: Thanks Pastor, I have sure learned a lot, but the most import thing seems to be to trust in what God says, rather than in what men say God says. See you Sunday, and try not to spit into the mike.[/QUOTE]
     
    #11 Van, Jun 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2013
  12. Rippon

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    You made no mention of "the original effort" whatsoever in your OP. That was dishonest of you Van.

    And in no way can the conversation between Billy and his Pastor be considered atheistic. Shame on you again.
     
  13. Van

    Van
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    This is the second time you have denied the original work is an attack on God and the viability of the bible. I know your goal is to vilify me because I made a mistake. But to endorse the article as something designed to build God and His Word up is absurd.

    As I said elsewhere, old folks sometimes cannot remember where they got some of the material in their files. To charge me with dishonesty, is to assume I intentionally hid the material I parodied. Your mind reading claims have been noted.

    How many posts does it take to constitute harassment? Your posts 6, 8, 10, and 12 certainly seem to have presented your view of me and my error.
     
    #13 Van, Jun 29, 2013
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  14. Rippon

    Rippon
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    You made a mistake? If I had not posted the original you would not have fessed up. And your "mistake" isn't exactly fessing up.

    Right after your OP someone told you that your post contained more than some people do in their entire lives.

    You replied at first about your humility and then said:"Yes,I did study to pull this together." How haughty and dishonest of you Van.
     
  15. Van

    Van
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    Do you, Rippon, have anything to say on the topic? The original article, may indeed, not be an atheist hit piece, it may be a hit piece on Armininism by a person who believes those of the Arminian persuasion are lost, believing in another gospel. Either way, it attacked God and the Bible and denigrated a fictional pastor, putting words in his mouth to make him out as a buffoon.

    If you think my answers were not developed by study, then you think wrong.
     
    #15 Van, Jun 29, 2013
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  16. Van

    Van
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    Lets consider the implications buried in the questions:

    1) Does God love everybody, Arminians say yes, Calvinists say no.

    2) The idea that God hated Esau supports the Calvinist view that God does not love the world.

    3) Asking why God does not save everyone implies God does not love everyone.

    4) Questioning why God would send people to hell if he loves them again attacks the idea that God so loved the world He gave His one of a kind Son.

    5) Next the question, if Jesus died for everyone, why is not everyone going to heaven is pushing Limited Atonement, rather than God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

    6) And finally claiming when God gave Abraham his vision in a dream, He was teaching against human responsibility, tied it all up, a hit piece against God, the bible, and non-Cals.

    My parody, written from the viewpoint of providing biblical, not necessarily Arminian, responses, provides commentary that skewers the original effort.
     
    #16 Van, Jun 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2013
  17. Iconoclast

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    Busted!!!...what is going on with these non cals lately...first ACH, now the twaddlemaster himself:laugh:

    I was just feeling sorry for little Bobby as he was being mis-lead by the false teaching pastor ...when Alas...Rippon exposes Van .....then Van instead of coming clean when caught offers up...shuck and jive...thats all he has folks...shuck and jive:laugh: Poor little Bobby...might have to read his bible on his own to come to truth....

    Van might have to try that also:wavey:

    Does anyone have the number of plagiarists anonymous???? This is like an epidemic...lol...fiddlesticks
     
  18. preacher4truth

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    This whole thing is hilarious especially in light of another thread where Van recently said that Calvinists (all in general) use plagiarism readily and often (implied) as a debate tactic! :laugh:

    By the way I asked him for proof on his false claim and he 'shucked and jived' out of it.

    Then to top it off this guy has the nerve to do the same and then after receiving undo praise for something he plagiarized, and 'humbly' accepts this praise and claims all this as the leadership of the Holy Spirit?

    Unbelievable!!!!!

    Yep. Seriously busted. He and ach need to start a plagiarism anon group.
     
    #18 preacher4truth, Jun 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2013
  19. saturneptune

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    So now we have two confirmed members of the plagiarism fan club, Van and Dr. JA. They need to start a club and one can be President and the other Secretary. To keep things in perspective, this really has nothing to do with cal or non cal, this has to do with honesty and integrity. I started another thread about this subject, and the google search proves the point beyond a reasonable doubt. I cannot understand why plagiarism is not treated more severely than the insults going back and forth. Plagiarism in its against the law. It probably only results in enforcement when large sums of money are involved.

    This certainly does the free will side no favors, as here is a black and white example of their lack of ability to prove a point using facts, logic, and Scripture.

    Never thought I would say this, but thank you Rippon for exposing this sham.
     
  20. Inspector Javert

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    :rolleyes:
    This false frenzy of fake shock and abhorence is so transparent. Fainting like Victorian Virgins over the most MINOR of errors. This is like watching Teddy Kennedy slobbering tearfully in feigned concern during his lynching of Robert Bork.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/borking
    S.N. couldn't even keep the charade of objectivity throughout one entire post:
    And the giveaway:
    Oh....yes, this is all honest and sincere concern because of unimaginable crimes that absolutely take the breath away. :rolleyes:
     
    #20 Inspector Javert, Jun 30, 2013
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