Boehner's Dangerous Game

Discussion in 'Politics' started by InTheLight, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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    John Boehner is playing a dangerous game by linking the defunding of Obamacare (and other pet Republican issues) to continuing to fund the government. He originally proposed a "kick the can down the road" proposal of funding the government through Dec. 15th and working on these issues but yesterday the far right wing of the party (read Tea Partyers) got him to capitulate and accept the linkage.

    First off, there is no way there will ever be a bill come out of the Senate to defund Obamacare. Even Ted Cruz acknowledged this. Secondly, suppose pigs were to fly and there was a bill, Obama would surely veto it. Thirdly, the blame for the shutdown of the government would fall squarely on the Republicans. Putting the implications for the stock market aside, this third outcome--Republicans blamed for shutdown--might be too much for Obama to resist, so he might not put up too much of a fight to shut down the government. It could be a strategy to win back the House for Democrats in 2014.

    Waiting in the wings is the debt ceiling extension. The government could run out of money by October 19th. Guess who would get the blame for that? Especially if the government shuts down? Yep, the Republicans. Here's a couple of quotes from the players:

    Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., said House Republicans set off on a kamikaze mission. “They’re living in right-wing fantasy land” if they expect Democrats to take the blame for the chaos that could ensue, he said.

    But victorious House conservatives evinced no worries about the final outcome. Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, said, “We’ve got to play the game. We’ve got to see how it all shakes out.


    Ummm... I pretty much know how it's all going to work out--Obama is going to pown the Republicans. Again. And it will lead to the loss of the House in 2014.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    For once he is doing the right thing. The President wants everything he want when he wants it. Well to bad so sad. They need to stand up to him. And this is not a defund obamacare it is a delay just like obama delayed the other half.

    And it is not a given that the Republicans will be blamed. Truth is no matter what the issue is if there is a shutdown because they do not come to an agreement then both sides are to blame.

    Personally I do not care if it shuts down. That is a good thing. Less spending.
     
  3. InTheLight

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    It IS a defund Obamacare maneuver.

    WASHINGTON – After three years of cajoling, finessing and occasionally strong-arming his fitful conservative majority, Speaker John Boehner waved the white flag on Wednesday, surrendering to demands from his right flank that he tie money to keep the government open after Sept. 30 to stripping President Obama’s health care law of any financing.

    The House has already voted to repeal ObamaCare 40 (39?) times. Now they are planning to do it again but this time, tie it to funding for a law that has already passed.

    Spending bills originate in the House. The House is controlled by Repubs. If the House decides not to fund the government, who else is there to blame?

    Last time it shut down there were miniscule repercussions. This time I'm not so sure, considering the debt ceiling debate is next up on the agenda. The last time the debt ceiling went to the wall the stock market lost almost 9%. Take a look at your 401k and let me know how happy you'll be if it loses 8% to 9%. I'm about 10-12 years from retirement. For me it would be a significant hit. All because some stupid numbskulls in Washington are playing games.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    However, as of right now it is nothing more than a delay.


    Origination is irrelevant. Everyone has to agree to it. And the house has not decided to not fund the government. They never even suggested such. That statement is spin and has not truth in fact. It is a characterization made to lay blame. Nothing more.

    I do not see it as playing games. There is a fundamental disagreement based on genuine standards.


    My retirement took a hit of 25%, I am a bit farther out from retirement. But Obama needs to decide to work with Americans rather than Putin.
     
  5. InTheLight

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    OK, let's remove the origination of spending bills. Which party is the anti-government party? Which party wants to limit government, cut spending, reduce regulations? Answer: The Republicans. Americans may not like big government, spending, etc. but they do like their government. If the government is shut down the Republicans will get blamed. I think Obama would love this scenario.

    They've disagreed with Obama on ObamaCare 40 times. It is a game because there is no chance to defund ObamaCare. Yet they're going through with their threat. Look at the quote from Tea Partyer Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, “We’ve got to play the game. We’ve got to see how it all shakes out.


    OUCH!!


    Agreed, but I don't see what Putin has to do with the funding of government or the debt ceiling.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    I disagree that is a given



    People can call it what they want. It is the right thing to do whether Obama will do the right thing or not.




    Everything I had was in high risk. I now have guidstone gradually place it in less risk areas.




    I thought the comparison was obvious.
     
  7. Crabtownboy

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    It will be popular with the Tea Party, but in the long run it simply leads the GOP further down the road to oblivion with the American voters.

    The GOP has a real problem. Do they keep the Tea Party folk happy and go down in flames or do they act responsible and gain popularity with the American voter?
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Actually, ITL, that's not entirely accurate. The bill before the House contains the December 15 "target for can kicking", and funds the government completely except for the Great Pretender's joke of a healthcare program. It doesn't get one dime unless some problems are ironed out.

    The Democrats refuse to discuss rollbacks of implementation of the PPACA or "unfunding" the programs scheduled to start October 1. So, if anyone is playing a "dangerous game," it is the liberal/socialist Democrats who are sticking their fingers in their ears and go "Nanananana can't hear you" to calls for reworking a very bad program. Instead of agreeing -- as most of them do, privately -- that the PPACA was a bad idea and is going in a bad direction, and spending an extra 75-90 days trying to fix the problem, they are the ones who actually are hijacking the rest of the government for the sake of the Great Pretender's bad idea.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    51% Favor Government Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Funding

    President Obama yesterday criticized congressional Republicans for insisting on spending cuts in any budget deal that continues government operations past October 1, saying they risk "economic chaos." Most voters agree a federal government shutdown would be bad for the economy, but they're willing to risk one until Democrats and Republicans in Congress agree on ways to cut the budget, including cuts in funding for the new national health care law.

    Just 20% of Likely U.S. Voters believe a partial shutdown of the federal government would be good for economy, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Fifty-six percent (56%) say such a shutdown would be bad for the economy, even though payments for things like Social Security, Medicare and unemployment would continue. Sixteen percent (16%) think it would have no impact. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

    But 58% favor a federal budget that cuts spending, while only 16% prefer one that increases spending. Twenty-one percent (21%) support a budget that keeps spending levels about the same.

    This helps explain why 53% would rather have a partial government shutdown until Democrats and Republicans can agree on what spending to cut. Thirty-seven percent (37%) would prefer instead that Congress avoid a shutdown by authorizing spending at existing levels as the president has proposed.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...tdown_until_congress_cuts_health_care_funding
     
  10. saturneptune

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    Speaker Bonehead has no leadership ability. He is a typical Republican that is lead by the nose at the whim of Democrats. He has no moral bearing or direction. He makes decisions by direction of the wind. He is exactly like Mitch McConnell. As long as this is what the Republicans produce, they are going to lose elections.
     
  11. InTheLight

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    SN do you think the Repubs will get the blame if the government shuts down?
     
  12. saturneptune

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    If there is a government shutdown, I think the Republicans will get slightly more blame than the Democrats. You and I despise the Republican leadership, but for reasons 180 degrees out.

    Personally, just my opinion, the last President we had that had any backbone or leadership was Ronald Reagan. The one before that which had any backbone was Harry Truman.

    Anyway, although we are far apart politically, your posts are civil and well thought out.
     
  13. InTheLight

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    FWIW, I don't think we are that far apart. Does it matter how we get there?
     
  14. Jedi Knight

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    Ditto!:type:
     
  15. Bob Alkire

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    I have to say I agree with you on this.
     
  16. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I disagree 100%. The only thing keeping the republicans alive is the Tea Party and if the republican establishment continues to act like democrats the only real choice will be a new 3rd party. If we had a valid conservative choice I believe the liberals would continue to support the Democrats and the Republicans would cease to be a party within a couple of election cycles. It happened before. Remember the Republicans did not exist until 1854 and by 1860 they had the white house. A solid conservative party opposed to obamacare, amnesty, and the welfare state could grow just as fast.
     
  17. InTheLight

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    How can you say that given the fact that several Tea Party candidates challenged Republican incumbents, beat them in the primaries to become the candidate, then went on to squander double-digit leads and lose to Democrats in the general election?
     
  18. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    ITL,

    People loose elections for lots of reasons. Not every Tea Party canidate is going to win. Bad campaigns, lack of support from the national party, bad canidates.

    But mainstream republicans are not offering any difference from the democrats. In order to energize their voters or even get them to show up they have to offer something different. I know that without Sarah Palin in the race I would not have voted for McCain. I know some people believe she may have actually cost the republicans votes. I don't speak for everyone, just for me, she got me to vote republican last time. Without her in the race I would have voted libertarian or just not voted at all.

    I don't believe the republicans can win fighting over moderate voters in the middle. If they want to be relevant again I think they need to attract the right wing voters that have given up on the republican party because they are nearly as liberal as the democrats. I know that is where I stand. I may be wrong, again I speak only for me, but I beleive there are many more conservative voters who have given up on the GOP then there are moderate voters they can get from the democrats.
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I used to think the same thing, but after looking at polls and reading from several sources I think that a real Tea Party might hold House seats due to gerrymandering by state houses, they would be wiped out in the Senate and White House.

    America has changed. I see it every time I come back. I suspect the old Moral Majority mindset that elected President Reagan is long gone.
     
  20. Mexdeaf

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    Perhaps so. There's a lot of conservative people of all races and religions out there who feel that the Republican party no longer represents their best interests, but they are having a hard time coming together. The Tea Party was a good effort but was beset by being perceived (wrongly) as racist.
     

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