Bonus the Belly up

Discussion in 'Politics' started by LeBuick, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bonus then Belly up

    So a corporate tax cut would create jobs? Not with the current thinking running these companies. Merrill Lynch paid $3.6 Billion in bonuses just before reporting a $15.31 Billion fourth quarter loss which forced them to sell the company to BOA.

    Anyone wants to guess why the market is tanking and why 401K's have become 101K's? This should be illegal since it's impacting more people then the gangs, drugs and immigrants combined.

    http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200902231355DOWJONESDJONLINE000470_FORTUNE5.htm

     
    #1 LeBuick, Feb 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2009
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    So it is your position that those employees should make less money?

    I thought you were for companies paying their employees more. Man, LB, it is hard to keep up with your positions.
     
  3. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    You a funny guy... You have never seen me in favor of huge bonuses for the top executives and I will never waiver that a bonus should reward solid company performance. That obviously isn't the case when you pay out bonuses then belly up.

    It also shows the incompetence of the guys we pay big bucks to run the till. If they don't know the company is just about down the drain and can't afford 3.6 Billion in bonuses, then why do we pay them so much?

    By the way, can you fix my title to read "then belly up"? Please Sir...
     
  4. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bonuses, and other compensatory additions may or may not be tied to a company's bottom line or cash reserves/capitalization. If a salesman or unit leader meets the contractural critera for her bonus, why should she be penalized if someone else mismanaged funds that affected the balance sheet? Not her fault.

    No one has yet to make a Constitutional argument as to why govt should be able to override an employee's contract with a company promising wages. Some on the left around here would scream murder if we replaced the executive with a union worker getting production bonuses, yet the same principle applies.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks. I work hard at it ... Saves me from crying every day.

    What's huge and who gets to decide that? And what if the bonus is based on individual performance, not company (as Tom said).

    Don't know ... but who do we want deciding that? Do you want the government to determine that you make too much for being a pastor? Or too little? I don't.

    I have no ability in this forum to fix anything. If I could, I would start with the views of some people. :D Have to ask one of the mods of this forum.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is why the bailout will be an unmitigated disaster...

    With government money comes government control.

    Get ready for onerous Federal meddling.

    Corporations stupid enough to overpay people should be allowed to fail. Others will come along, and learn from the stupidity of the first. It's worked that way for decades, until our experiment in socialism.

    Speaking of the Constitution...there is no Constitutional guarantee to business success.
     
  7. dragonfly

    dragonfly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  8. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    If the salesman or unit leader earns a bonus in a company who is failing then it says the bonus was based on the wrong metric's. It again points to the incompetence of the leaders who probably gave themselves even more bonus.

    I agree, Government shouldn't override an employee's contract except in the case where tax payers money is sought to keep the company a float. At that time the executive is agreeing to a new agreement with the American people or they simply should say NO to our dollars. It is no different from how bankruptcy negates all contracts to include the union agreement.
     
  9. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I decided huge is more than 100% of your salary when making more than a million and the company is sinking.

    The word you don't want to hear is regulation but I believe it should be made to hold the board of directors feet to the fire. Something I keep saying is I believe the board of directors should be paid primarily with company stock ad there is no way the CEO should also be chairman of the board.

    Sorry, I was on my pedestal and really meant that for any Mod...
     
  10. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, advice from a "corporation" that is over $10 trillion in debt and adding probably $2 trillion to that this year. Excellent recipe for corporate success you have there.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think you should get to decide that. If you want to decide that, the buy stock in teh company and make your voice heard.

    Your financial solutions as seen in this forum are not attractive in the least. You don't seem to have much of a background in finance or in running companies.
     
  12. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Already been tried. Albania and East Germany didn't fare too well.
     
  13. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Glad you at least feel that way. However...
    • My fear (and it's founded upon government's behavior) is that government will eventually stick its nose, uninvited, into private enterprise and run things.
    • At some point, it will not be up to companies as to whether or not they are bailed out. The camel's done nosed up under the tent.
     
  14. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why are they using the wrong metric? Do you not understand how companies work? Maybe a sales dept is functioning just fine, so the sales mgr, VP of sales, whatever, earns a contracutural bonus. However, the finance dept., comptroller, whomever, is running a slipshod operation which is imparing a company's books. So why penalize the person who did their job just because (perhaps) someone else in the company didn't do theirs? Your theory is without basis. And your assertion that the people who got the bonuses had the power to give it to themselves to start with is also baseless.

    Again the logic breaks down. Contracts are contracts. If I work for you, and you promise me X if I do Y, then why shouldn't I get X when I do Y? The govt has no business keeping businesses afloat anyway. So why should the govt decide salaries of private employees? What we now see in the financial sector is the salaries/wages of line employees are being capped, not just "those at the top" While there may eventually be extraordinary circumstances, we cannot use a hatred for the private sector, business, "rich", or whatever left-wing claptrap we choose to use today to justify a govt that permeates private enterprise.
     
  15. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    But you also object to trying to reduce this debt by raising taxes on the top 5%. Either the debt should bother you and you appreciate Obama trying to address it or you because we shouldn't worry about the debt which means he can spend as he pleases with no worries.
     
  16. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    We own stock via my wifes 401K and the CEO's don't care that our stock is going down or they wouldn't be giving all the profits away as bonuses.

    It doesn't take a financial genius to know you don't give out bonuses when the company is broke. Unless you want the company to fail.
     
  17. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    If your wife owns stock in a 401k plan , you should know that her shares entitle her to dividends by nature of the stock ownership and that these dividends and profit divisions are set not by executives but by the board of directors.

    So your wife is one of these wealthy Wall Street players we keep hearing about? :laugh: Me too.
     
  18. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Based on what? And bonuses reduce them how? As long as you're giving classes, give us the whole class.
     
  19. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only problem is that nobody except union members have a contract. The company can change anything with an edict. My company just declared that management employees will not get a raise this year. Union members will however. That's what's wrong with unions. They think that they are owed pay increases irregardless of how the company performs.

    Companies can even change pension or healthcare agreements after someone has retired. Doesn't seem fair does it? That doesn't matter.
     
  20. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I object because it won't work. Raising taxes generally lowers revenue. Plus it prevents that money from going into the economy where it creates jobs and therefore additional taxes.

    CEOs care more about the stock than you do because a great amount of their wealth is tied to stock.

    Or unless you want to fulfill promises you made to people. There are all kinds of reasons to give out bonuses. I am not defending any of them. Simply pointing out that it isn't your job to determine who gets them and how big they should be.
     

Share This Page

Loading...