Born of God

I think GE explained it earlier. It means "born according to the Spirit." It's helpful sometimes to look at various versions.

NASB: "according to the Spirit"

NIV: At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now

NKJV: "according to the Spirit"

 

Just quickly - I'll be back later, God willing ....

About being 'converted': You convert a car, you change it! You give your beetle a Roll's engine; you converted it; changed it beyond recognition INSIDE; outside is still the same!

I always say: It's NOT 'Convert and be born again; it is be born againg then be converted. Justified by faith then sanctified by grace; but 'justified by faith' already had been grace 100%!!

That Volksagen could not do a thing for itself. Its owner first had to give it another --- totally strange --- engine; then watch it perform! Like a truly 'converted' miracle.

 

Gal 4.29 brings up an interesting point: Apparently some people in the OT were "born according to the Spirit" although this may indicate not all were. We know Saul had God's Spirit taken away, for example. So it could be that some people in the OT were born of the Spirit and indwelt while others received the Spirit but also had the Spirit taken away.

I always assumed no one in the OT was "born of the Spirit" but Gal 4.29 is challenging that view.

Another supporting scripture could be John 3 when Jesus tells Nicodemus he must be "born again." Jesus indicted that Nicodemus, as a Jewish teacher, should have understood this:

9Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

Jesus uses 3 similar phrases: "born again," "born of water and the Spirit," and "born of the Spirit." Many bibles have Ez. 36:25-27 as a reference for being born "of water and of Spirit." But whether Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand this because it was a prophecy in the OT that he was supposed to understand was being fulfilled now, or because this happened in the OT, I'm not sure.

 

I think yours has been a very fine post, Marcia!

 

Thanks, GE! :wavey:

 

1Jo 3:13Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

Gal 4
29: But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

It quoted a complete phase, and said "even so it is today".

You want to cherry pick, but even doing that, you have trouble with "harmony" you speak about.

So, it says born, instead of "birth", what is the difference? If the born after the Spirit was different then, I am sure the writer would of said so.

Main Entry:
1birth
1 a: the emergence of a new individual from the body of its parent b: the act or process of bringing forth young from the womb
2: a state resulting from being born especially at a particular time or place <a Southerner by birth>

Main Entry:
born
1 a: brought forth by or as if by birth b:native —usually used in combination <American-born> c: deriving or resulting from —usually used in combination <poverty-born crime>

2 a: having from birth specified qualities <a born leader> b: being in specified circumstances from birth <nobly born> <born to wealth>3: destined from or as if from birth <born to succeed>

 

You miss my whole point of scripture saying "born after the Spirit" also in those days.
What is it?

 

Born of:​

1080​

gennaw
gennao
ghen-nah'-o​

from a variation of genoV - genos 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.​

Born after:​

4151​

pneuma
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah​

from pnew - pneo 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare yuch - psuche 5590.​

There may be two different meanings, except you hold to "born of" as being born of the "Holy Ghost", when the definition of "born after" is the one definitely "born of the Holy Spirit:--Ghost.​

I don't think you have come up with a very good answer. It does not explain the fact that "born after" means "born after Christ's Spirit, the Holy Spirit:--Ghost?​

I have always believed some were filled with the Holy Ghost, before Christ died and were saved. I think there is something to be said about the "blood" having not yet been shed, but don't know yet exactly how to put it.

I think many died in faith, that were saved and no doubt were filled with the Holy Spirit, while here on earth, but received their white robes when Christ died.​

 

Eph 5:19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

You are completely misusing scripture here. Try the Spirits, to see if they are of God. There is more than just "one" Spirit from God. The devil has spirits too, and lead people into thinking untruths. There is the "blind leading the blind". There are many who will say "Lord we have prophesied in thy name", and he will say, depart, I never knew you.


Question:
Those who died in the faith in OT, where did their souls go to?

2Cr 11:13
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Cr 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Cr 11:15
Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

Abraham's (bosom), where is that?

My point is there are many spirits, some of the devil and some of God. I think you are using one Spirit of God and trying to place it as another. One Spirit of God is being born with, and the one you are speaking of, is worshiping with.

 

John was a man sent of God, before he was ever born. So we can't compare him to the population.
It seems to me the rest had faith, is why it was counted as righteousness.


Abraham's (bosom), where is that?

 

Steaver:
"So I believe it has been established that "born of the Spirit" and "born after the Spirit" has two different meanings and applications."

GE:
No. It simply does not say, "born after the Spirit", but "out of" (ek) the Spirit". The man who would 'walk / live / obey after / according to (kata) the Spirit', would do so because he has been "born of the Spirit".

The man who is "born according to the flesh" (kata sarka)", Gl4:29, does not 'walk after the Spirit', nor can he, because he is not "born OF/BY the Spirit", "according to / after / as willed the Spirit",

not,
1) because he was born in the flesh a mere mortal human only,
but,
2) because he was born "according to" -'kata' - the LAW of SINFUL fallen human nature that has not been born of the Holy Spirit a new creature to the will of God.