Featured Born of water?

I have question concerning that article.

And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, <Rev. 1:5 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. <1 John 1:7

From the above, am I to understand that by Christ dying for our sins, by shedding his blood our sins were washed away?

As in 1 Cor. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;


1 Cor. 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.


According to that verse was it absolutely necessary for the Christ to be raised from the dead in order for his blood to have washed away our sins?

Exactly whose, "regeneration," allowed his blood to wash away our sins, thereby allowing salvation to be given to us?

 

And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom,
And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. Luke 19:11,12,15,17

That is the kingdom of God one must be born from above into, for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God in which one will rule with the Christ.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.


Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Isa 66:8

The kingdom of God born from Zion, Jerusalem above the mother of all at the appearing of Jesus and his kingdom. The regeneration from the dead.

 

Translate 'and' [kai] as 'even':

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water even the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

 

You may badly want it to, but that doesn't disqualify him in the least from having the correct interpretation here, and his Jewish upbringing and education would definitely qualify him to make this assessment:

"....Jesus took him straight to whence alone that ‘Kingdom’ could be seen. ‘Except a man be born from above,1837 he cannot see the Kingdom of God.’ It has been thought by commentators, that there is here an allusion to a Jewish mode of expression in regard to proselytes, who were viewed as ‘new-born.’ But in that case Nicodemus would have understood it, and answered differently - or, rather, not expressed his utter inability to understand it.... according to the Jewish view, this second birth was the consequence of having taken upon oneself ‘the Kingdom;’ not, as Jesus put it, the cause and condition of it....Judaism could understand a new relationship towards God and man, and even the forgiveness of sins. But it had no conception of a moral renovation, a spiritual birth, as the initial condition for reformation, far less as that for seeing the Kingdom of God. And it was because it had no idea of such ‘birth from above,’ of its reality or even possibility, that Judaism could not be the Kingdom of God."

 

Kai

Definition: and, also, even, indeed, but

King James Word Usage - Total: 9249
and 8172, also 514, even 108, both 43, then 20, so 18, likewise 13, not tr. 348, miscellaneous 32, vr and 1

 

"There is no life in God the Father for a sinner; there is no life in God the Spirit for a sinner apart from Jesus. The life of a sinner is in Christ. If you take the Father apart from the Son, though he loves his elect, and decrees that they shall live, yet life is only in his Son. If you take God the Spirit apart from Jesus Christ, though it is the Spirit that gives us spiritual life, yet it is life in Christ, life in the Son. We dare not, and cannot apply in the first place, either to God the Father, or to God the Holy Ghost for spiritual life. The first thing we are led to do when God brings us out of Egypt is to eat the Passover—the very first thing. The first means whereby we get life is by feeding upon the flesh and blood of the Son of God; living in him, trusting on him, believing in his grace and power. Our second thought was—there is life in Christ...I can say that as a Calvinist, or as a hyper-Calvinist, as plainly as you can say it. I have no narrower gospel than you have; only my gospel is on a solid foundation, whereas yours is built upon nothing but sand and rottenness. "Every man that cometh shall be saved, for no man cometh to me except the Father draw him." "But," says one, "suppose all the world should come, would Christ receive them?" Certainly, if all came; but then they won't come. I tell you all that come—aye, if they were as bad as devils, Christ would receive them; if they had all sin and filthiness running into their hearts as into a common sewer for the whole world, Christ would receive them. Another says, "I want to know about the rest of the people. May I go out and tell them—Jesus Christ died for every one of you? May I say—there is righteousness for everyone of you, there is life for every one of you?" No; you may not. You may say—there is life for every man that comes. But if you say there is life for one of those that do not believe, you utter a dangerous lie. If you tell them Jesus Christ was punished for their sins, and yet they will be lost, you tell a wilful falsehood. To think that God could punish Christ and then punish them—I wonder at your daring to have the impudence to say so! A good man was once preaching that there were harps and crowns in heaven for all his congregation; and then he wound up in a most solemn manner: "My dear friends, there are many for whom these things are prepared who will not get there." In fact, he made such a pitiful tale, as indeed he might do; but I tell you who he ought to have wept for—he ought to have wept for the angels of heaven and all the saints, because that would spoil heaven thoroughly. You know when you meet at Christmas, if you have lost your brother David and his seat is empty, you say: "Well, we always enjoyed Christmas, but there is a drawback to it now—poor David is dead and buried!" Think of the angels saying: "Ah! this is a beautiful heaven, but we don't like to see all those crowns up there with cobwebs on; we cannot endure that uninhabited street: we cannot behold yon empty thrones." And then, poor souls, they might begin talking to one another, and say, "we are none of us safe here for the promise was—"I give unto my sheep eternal life," and there is a lot of them in hell that God gave eternal life to; there is a number that Christ shed his blood for burning in the pit, and if they may be sent there, so may we. If we cannot trust one promise we cannot another." So heaven would lose its foundation, and fall. Away with your nonsensical gospel! God gives us a safe and solid one, built on covenant doings and covenant relationship, on eternal purposes and sure fulfillments,"

C.H. Spurgeon.

John 3 :
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”


Jews was looking for eternal life, those who were self-righteous own proclamation of their righteousness thought they were already going to it.

Jesus tells them they would have to be born again, born from above to have eternal life. They are both correct translation of the word, you can't just pick which one you will accept


John 6 :
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”


Following a crowd does not mean we have been drawn by the Father, this is how we will know.


John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.


Jesus is our medicine for life, unless you eat His flesh the word He Spoke and drink His blood the life He lived applying it to our life you have no life in you of your own.

Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”


That person that never heard the Gospel of their salvation having believe will face condemnation, most people come emotional about that and will believe anything not to agree with such a horrible statement, because we are God's messengers, ambassador's.

Faith without deeds is dead, faith without love is worthless.

 

TCassidy & kyredneck:

Your discussion about "born again" and "born from above" is slightly mistaken on both fronts of your respective arguments.

One of the things that is of great importance that you're both missing is that the verb γεννάω in this passage (the verb for "born") is in the passive voice, meaning that the subject cannot act upon himself or herself.

So, the question becomes, who is the actor here? This example is likely considered what has become known as "the divine passive." So, God is the one born-ing people again.

So, the proper, all-encompassing translation would be best rendered as "Born again from above." This translation takes into consideration the grammar, not just the lexicon.

The Archangel

 

<..............>

 

Save the advice for an admirer.

 

Thank you AA! I always appreciate you input, I usually learn something.

"Born again from above", I love it.

 

I can't live on a little piece of bread men decide that they want to feed me. We must be born again from above, we need to be changed period into the new creation in Christ Jesus. Jesus is our life that came from above and eating and drinking of Him we receive what came from above.

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

James 2 :
Faith and Deeds

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.


Hebrews 4

4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

This is what I believe:

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
--Jesus said there are two types of birth: one of the flesh, the other of the Spirit. The flesh is how we all entered this world. The Spirit refers to the second birth, the new birth. Nicodemus needed to be born again.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
--There are two agencies by which a man must be born again: one is water, the other is the Spirit. We all agree that the Spirit refers to the Holy Spirit. Unless one is born of the Spirit of God he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

But what does the water refer to?
It is symbolic. The Catholics say baptism, but that would teach baptismal regeneration, a heresy.

Some say it is the amniotic fluid--fitting the context of a natural birth. But is that what Nicodemus would be thinking about? It is a plausible interpretation, one I would not argue with, but I think that there is still a better one.

I believe it refers to the Word of God.
What would enter into Nicodemus's mind when Jesus would use a symbolic term as "water"? What is the most common purpose of water?
Water is used for cleansing. Everyday Nicodemus went to the Temple and went through a number of ceremonial cleansings. He probably wasn't too far from the Temple at that time.
Nicodemus was a Rabbi; in fact the NT bears out the meaning of "the Rabbi," the outstanding teacher of his time. He knew the OT well.
No doubt the Scripture would have come to his mind:

Psalms 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
--How do I cleanse my way? By taking heed unto thy Word.
Water is symbolic of the Word of God.

Remember there are only two agencies whereby a person is born again.
water and the Spirit.

Jesus also said:
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
--It is the Word that does the cleansing. Water is symbolic of the Word.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
--Here James tells us that we are begotten or "born again" by the Word.
Water represents the Word.
There are only two agencies by which a man is born again: water and the Word.

Finally:
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--It is very clear here that it is impossible to be born again without the Word of God. One is born again by the Word of God.
There are only two agencies by which a man is born again.
One is water or the Word.
The other is the Spirit of God.
The Spirit of God works through the Word of God to regenerate a person or bring him to Christ.

Without the gospel message, the Word of God it is impossible for a person to be saved.
The water represents the Word. There is no other logical conclusion when the totality of Scripture is taken into consideration.

 

It isn't speculation.

You simply cannot rip ἄνωθεν from the context and determine its meaning. The simple truth of exegesis is that the verb governs nearly all of the grammar in Greek, so you cannot ignore it.

In this context, the verb γεννάω is passive and affects the understanding of the adverb, ἄνωθεν.

What is more, Nicodemus' response shows that he understood the reference, primarily, to be "born again"--since he inquires of Jesus about the possibilities of entering "as second time" into his mother's womb.

The point of the interaction between Jesus and Nicodemus is that Nicodemus, "The Teacher of Israel," should have understood what "being born again from above," due to the passive verb, meant. Of course, he didn't. He thought it meant that some gynecological miracle would have to be performed. Jesus was referring to being born from above--regeneration.

Again, the key thing here is the passive verbs. Many people have taken Jesus' statement in John 3:3 to be a command "Get born again." But that's not what He's saying. He's saying God must do something to you--HE must born you again. So, the borning again comes from above, from God Himself.

Therefore, it is entirely proper to say "Born again from above."

The Archangel

 

Let me add a few more things here...

In the LXX (that's the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament) the word ἄνωθεν often means "above" or "from above."

Genesis 49:25 says:

by the God of your father who will help you, by the Almighty who will bless you
with blessings of heaven above, (ἄνωθεν)
blessings of the deep that crouches beneath,
blessings of the breasts and of the womb.

Joshua 3:16 says:

the waters coming down from above (ἄνωθεν) stood and rose up in a heap very far away, at Adam, the city that is beside Zarethan, and those flowing down toward the Sea of the Arabah, the Salt Sea, were completely cut off. And the people passed over opposite Jericho.

The BDAG Lexicon, the gold-standard of Greek lexica, affirms that the word ἄνωθεν can mean "again," however that particular definition is listed 4th--dead last--in the regularity of understanding. But, even in that understanding here is what the BDAG says:

γεννηθῆναι be born again J[ohn] 3:3, 7... is designedly ambiguous and suggests also a transcendent experience born from above[1]
​

Furthermore, in Greek, the most typical word for "again" is the word πάλιν. In fact πάλιν is where we get our English word "palindrome."

So, it just doesn't mean "again" as simply as you want it to.

The Archangel

[1]William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 92.

 

DHK, At first I held these ideas and it is true we are washed by the water of the word,etc.
You correctly Identify the context with Nicodemus being the teacher in Israel.
This is why I believe it is the Water of seperation...from num 19.

Jesus was expecting"the teacher "in Israel to know these things

In Jn 3 jesus also raises num 21 [as Moses lifted the serpent on a pole]up as a type of the cross....so it seems as if Numbers was in view...

EPH5:26,and 1 Pet are also great truths...but they were not written yet, for Nicodemus to have Known them yet.What do you think?:thumbsup: