Bottom Line on Judging Zimmerman's Actions...

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Benjamin, Jul 12, 2013.

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Bottom Line:

  1. Zimmerman has NO responsibility whatsoever and therefore should receive NO punishment whatsoever.

    50.0%
  2. Zimmerman has SOME responsibility and therefore should receive at least SOME punishment.

    20.0%
  3. We don’t know enough to believe Zimmerman is responsible at all.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. We know enough to conclude that there is at least some responsibility on Zimmerman’s part.

    40.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin
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    (1)…a wannabe cop who took the law into his own hands…

    I say:

    We cannot know that the depth of him “wanting to” so it is not the “bottom line”. The depth of punishment for what he IS responsible for is the bottom line.

    Maybe Zimmerman was deep down itching to shot someone or it could be more innocent than that, but at a minimum I think it fair to say he was itching to get into a conflict, which seems quite evident and undeniable. Maybe he was simply scared, being in over his head once the conflict began, but either way he is the initial cause which lead to this young man’s death and has some responsibility here…but how much is what is hard to say.

    So the questions at the heart of the matter are…

    Should he get a slap on the hand, has he been through enough already?

    Should he be completely forgiven for his actions or should he be made an example of?

    Would it be just for his actions to be completely forgiven and no punishment given? What if it was your child, would you satisfied if someone like this, that put himself into a situation that got out of hand was allowed to be completely excused?

    And what about Martin, he wasn’t the initial cause but he very well might have been a strong secondary cause. If Martin was an overwhelming secondary cause does that shift ALL responsibility over to him alone? Martin certainly paid his price for any secondary cause. This is done, Zimmerman took care of that.

    Did Zimmerman irrationally fear for his life and go overboard just like he irrationally got himself into this situation? Or did he suddenly act completely rational when this young man uncontrollably attacked him or was it that Martin began on his own role playing and Zimmerman innocently misjudged how severe the reverse situation now was?


    (2)…a well-meaning volunteer who feared for his life in a struggle with the unarmed teenager who was slamming his head into concrete.

    Did Martin start the violent event, single handedly, or did Zimmerman have a part in that too?

    We don’t know all the facts and Martin, unfortunately, isn’t here to tell his side.

    Would it not be reasonable to believe that Zimmerman has at least some responsibility here too in this conflict becoming violent?

    Or was Martin so radically immoral that for someone to merely approach him would set him off into a violent attack after being totally unprovoked?

    Is it reasonable to believe that Zimmerman also had at least some responsibility here also adding to the depth of his part in this?

    I don’t think we can know the bottom line according to the defense of whether or not Zimmerman “wanted” to shot someone. It just isn’t clear enough to put it that simply and there were many extenuating circumstances that led up to the fact that he did shot someone.

    It seems to me, given reasonable doubt and assuming innocent until proven guilty that the exact intent will not be able to be proved without a doubt. I wish we could have been there and looking into the minds of these people to know all the facts but unfortunately we are left with this “bottom line” regarding Zimmerman’s actions:

    Some responsibility or no responsibility.

    If there is to be any justice this must be answered honestly as the only reasonable bottom line we are left with.

    On the side bar:

    Then, if responsible how much punishment should there be? That is the hardest question for me. Not that Zimmerman did not have at least some responsibility as it seems clear that he holds some responsibility is undeniable.

    I see no justice in this for the family of this young man if Zimmerman is set completely free. But on the other hand I would not want to see an injustice of too harsh a punishment based on merely assuming his unknowable exact intent to be the worst.

    Therefore, since I am willing to say there is at least some responsibility on Zimmerman’s part and there should be at least some punishment. The biggest problem is to judge how much punishment. Frankly, and unfortunately, if I had to decide this matter I would probably feel the right thing to do is consider the middle of the road between life at a maximum and maybe a couple years at a minimum and honestly, I would probably go on the lighter side of the middle and give him the reasonable doubt on his exact intent.

    I’ve been messing with some here on the issue of intent and motives because it seems there is some unbalanced thoughts because of the politics involved, but in reality my heart goes out to Zimmerman in that I believe there could be some innocent factors in this that others are trying to pin him on.

    IF I were to be on the jury, I believe I would see some responsibility. As a judge, I suspect that in prayer and considering grace I might consider something like 5 years and leave it in God’s hands, but, I must say heart also goes out to the family. However, IF I were that young man’s father I may consider this guy a menace to society that irresponsibly placed himself in this situation and thereby willingly took this responsibility on himself that ended up taking my child’s life and would want a much longer sentence and leave that in God’s hands.
     
    #1 Benjamin, Jul 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2013
  2. Salty

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    are you talking about Zimmerman or Martin being the Menace to society
     
  3. Squire Robertsson

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    Is the defendent resp[onsible for his actions? Yes.
    Was the defendent justified as a matter of self defense in his actions? Also yes.
    There is the finding of justifiable homicide.
     
  4. Benjamin

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    Being I'm talking about a father's perspective who lost his child, who was going to the store to buy candy and never came home.

    Some responsibility on Zimmerman's part being assumed if he were found guilty of having some (??? yes or no, BTW? You can't simply skip over this as it doesn't matter) and now the time for punished to be delivered, who you think Martin's father would see as the menace to society?

    Martin already received his sentence for any of his responsibility in this by Zimmerman's hand.

    It is now time for Zimmerman's sentence for his part.

    BTW, IMO they may both be (or have been) a menace to society...so Martin's sentence was death. What would you want as his father for Zimmerman's sentence? A slap on the hand?
     
    #4 Benjamin, Jul 12, 2013
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  5. Benjamin

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    If so, mighty "convenient" for Zimmerman in that he could escape having ANY responsibility for his initiation of this event that cause it to come to him being judge, jury and executioner?

    What gave him this "right" to forcefully put himself into this situation???

    No punishment for responsibility for his actions whatsoever??? Interesting...
     
    #5 Benjamin, Jul 12, 2013
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  6. Benjamin

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    Should have somehow included whether we know enough about the situation that we could place, "enough responsibility to justify such as deserving of punishment" on the last 2 questions.
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.


    Delusion, thy name is Benjamin.
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

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    We haven't seen the wrongful death civil law suits that are sure to follow if Z is acquitted. Remember OJ was criminally acquitted but was found civilly liable.
     
  9. Benjamin

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    Thank you for your meaningless rhetorical contribution of an Ad Hominem to this thread. ;)
     
  10. Benjamin

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    Good point, that he is likely not to fully escape any punishment, although taking this guy's money away would not satisfy the injustice done if it were my child.
     
  11. Zaac

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    There will be punishment. If the jury...the mothers on the jury... saw the picture that I saw of somebody's 17 year old son stretched out on the grass with his eyes open and his mouth ajar as though he was trying to catch his last breath before stepping into eternity,, there will be punishment.

    He's complicit. To let him walk would be reason to get rid of the SYG laws altogether.

    If he wanted to catch a a criminal, then he should have stayed in his vehicle and waited for the cops. He got out of his car of the neighborhood he knows so well to check for an address? You're in your gated community. Ain't but two or three main roads. Wouldn't an approximate address work? Sure it would.

    In fact he could have looked at the building where he got out his truck(blue) instead of walking through the area that he said he lost Trayvon and supposedly back out to the road on the other side(yellow path) looking for an address. No. He was looking for Trayvon.

    He didn't get out his truck looking for a street sign on one street and then proceeded to go through yards behind houses where he says someone disappeared to go to ANOTHER street to get an address.

    He was looking for Trayvon.

    [​IMG]


    His story speaks to someone pursuing another and according to SYG, Trayvon could use force to defend himself if he felt threatened. At some point, I would imagine the SYG laws kicked in for George Zimmerman too.

    But does the law provide for starting off as the aggressor and then becoming the one who has to SYG? Wouldn't make much sense if it did. But it is a stupid law drafted by stupid people.
     
    #11 Zaac, Jul 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2013
  12. Zaac

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    He doesn't have enough money to stop a mother's hurt from losing her child, and even if he did, I somehow don't think a civil judgment is going to be enough to calm the storm that will brew if he receives no criminal punishment.
     
  13. Salty

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    So, you don't have a problem with someone banging your head against the sidewalk?

    Seems like Zimmerman should sue Martins parents for medical bills.
     
  14. Aaron

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  15. Benjamin

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    It appear you see no responsibility for this death on Zimmerman's part whatsoever? Interesting...
     
  16. Benjamin

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    Obviously another who values the kind of reasoning skills that rest on meaningless rhetoric and Ad Hominem, thanks for your contribution to this thread. ;)
     
  17. Aaron

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    Bottom Line on Judging Zimmerman's Actions...

    It's a local issue, and local law and the initial judgement of those who were on the scene was there was no reason for an arrest.
     
  18. Salty

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    If it was self-defense - then Zimmerman had a responsibility to take what ever action he needed to protect himself.

    Now, will you answer my question from post # 13?
     
  19. Zaac

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    That was not the initial judgment. The initial judgment of the lead investigator, Chris Serino, was to arrest Zimmerman.
     
  20. webdog

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    Lets see, Zimmerman had plenty of responsibilities...

    Neighborhood watch. Responsible for keeping an eye out for suspicious activity. Check.

    Call the cops to report suspicious activity. Check.

    Stop following when dispatcher tells you to. Check.

    Defend yourself when attacked. Check.

    Report you shot someone instead of fleeing. Check.

    Cooperate with the authorities. Check.

    Yep...I'd say he was quite responsible.
     
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