Breaking news actually old news "Early church Fathers Taught the Pre-Trib" view

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by revmwc, May 6, 2015.

  1. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Here it is from Approximately 150 A.D. to 350 A.D. the Pre-Trib Rapture was taught it is not as OR and others claim started by Darby. And they did not believe as OR does in a parenthesis church.

    "Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) "was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

    In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just."

    let's check another:

    "Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

    In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

    “We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

    And another:

    "Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. The book Pseudo Ephraim was one of his still existing works. It was called “Pseudo” because of later dispute over authorship. However the book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling:

    In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote:

    “We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time.

    Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!”
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    Did you make that stuff up or are you afraid to post a link?
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    He cited his work properly no link is required. If you can prove those quotes to be faulty then please do so. Unless you are just looking to make an adhomnem attack on the source.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    [attack snipped]
     
    #4 OldRegular, May 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2015
  5. OldRegular

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    The above shows how devious the "Rapture Ready folks" are.

    I have been condemning the pre-trib concept of a "parenthesis" Church, which is the result of the false teaching of the pre-trib-doctrine, on this BB for 10+ years yet this poster deliberately lies and states I believe in the "parenthesis" Church.
    Where is the moderator who is so careful about some folks and ignores others?
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Apparently you do not know what proper citation is.
     
  7. revmwc

    revmwc
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    You seem to be the only expounding and speaking of the "Parenthesis Church" in all the recent post on the subject of pre-trib events. I haven't seen where one of the Posters in the thread has ever claimed there is a Parenthesis church. I have continuously said the church was always in god's plan.

    Yet you continue to speak of the "Parenthesis Church" I have asked you where you find it since you are almost always the one who brings it up. So if you don't believe in it and we who believe in the Pre-Trib view don't believe in it why don't you just drop it? then I will not continue to say you believe in it as long as you bring it up you must believe in it. You seem to be hung up on there being one not us. Just as you are hungup on Darby. You also continue to accuse folks of being darbyites or calling everything posted a lie or false without backing it up with scripture that explicitly shows it to be that.
     
  8. Br. Dan

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    Thank you

    Thank you for posting these references, revmwc, that is good information to have... Now if I can just figure out how to print the post, by itself, as a PDF.

    Thanks!
     
  9. OldRegular

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    You knew you were lying when you said I believed in a "parenthesis" Church!
     
  10. revmwc

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    How many lies as you call them have you told of people you call darbyites? Or when you say something they post is a lie or false? If you can't prove it to be untrue then when you say it is a lie or false what do you call that.

    As for as post from you I see you post in those threads something about the "Parenthesis Chruch" you must believe to be true or you wouldn't post it! When none of the pre-trib posters even mention it until you bring it up. What are we to believe when you continue to mention it? The fact is you bring it up first then you must believe it to be true.
     
  11. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Why not highlight it copy it and place it on a text or PDF file?
     
  12. revmwc

    revmwc
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    I sent a note to the moderator asking him to review whether I violated any rules, we will see what happens.
     
  13. sag38

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    What could he possibly gain by making this stuff up? If you were able to prove him wrong I would without doubt believe that he would admit his error and join your in your quest to defeat all those evil dispensationalists.
     
  14. robustheologian

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    It is likely that the early Church Fathers were premillennial...but unlikely that they were pre-tribulational.
     
  15. blessedwife318

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    Well that gives you a Pre-millennial view but not a Pre-trib view. If anything a mid-triber could use this for support since you have the 3 1/2 years but nothing about the rapture coming 7 years prior to the Millennial reign.

    I find this one hard as it has an old English style of writing. I'm guessing that the this was translated a long time ago. But from reading it several times I think it could just as easily be read as death being the early departure and the you being singular not plural. Especially the part you have written in red that says each of us has a day assigned to us, not that there is one day assigned to us all. But I will give you that this is also your strongest quote of them all.

    This one is your weakest quote as it really puts Christians inside the tribulation period. Yes I know you are going to point to where it says that the saints will be gathered before the tribulation but given the context I think you would be hard pressed to prove that the tribulation he is talking about is the 7 year tribulation.
    I'll break this quote down a bit to show why.
    As any good Pre-tribber will tell you there is not sign before the Rapture, thats why it can happen at any time.
    We also have 3 horsemen of the apocalypse described here with hunger, plagues and wars among the nations.

    After talking about how the only thing left is for the antichrist to come he talks about how the Coming or advent of the Lord is nigh. Pre-tribbers make a clear distinction between the rapture and the second advent.

    The sickle a reference to Revelation happens at the very end of the 7 years. So again this quote does not support a pre-trib view it only really supports a pre-mill view.


    And also I will say that it is disingenuous to say that OR believes that the Church is a parenthesis.
    He is correct that traditional dispensationalist believe that the church is a parenthesis in God's "Dispensations."
     
  16. OldRegular

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    You are correct!
     
  17. OldRegular

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    And he omitted the part from an earlier post which showed that Eprahim was a believer in "penance"!
     
  18. DHK

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    You really mean to say that you have been posting for years a lie, or even more than one. "This pre-trib concept of a 'parenthesis" Church...". Please document where any poster has affirmed their belief in it.
    I can actually document a number of posters who have denied their belief in it. That makes you, how shall I put it, "an accuser of our brethren." A little harsh, but nevertheless true. You keep accusing falsely your own brethren of something they don't believe.

    As I have explained before you admit to believing in "the Doctrines of Grace," or essentially Calvinism, doctrines founded in Augustine. If we call you an Augustinian, which would be fair because Calvin did get his doctrines of from Augustine, then by your logic we could go the step further that you are taking and accuse you of believing in Purgatory and baptismal regeneration. After all that is what Augustine believed in.
    This is what you are doing. This is the logic you are adopting.
    It is wrong.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    I am not holding my breath. DHK would like to find excuse to ban me and many on this BB realize that! Even the Squire, who rarely speaks, has chimed in!

    I know and You know you deliberately lied when you stated:
     
  20. OldRegular

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    The pap I expected. I did not report the poster but he deliberately lied when he said:
    Furthermore you know it yet you infer that I believe that blasphemy! Disgusting to say the least DHK!

    I have posted recently comments by leaders of the dispensational movement in this country espousing the concept of a "parenthesis" Church.

    You,DHK, would damn all Roman Catholics regarding the heretical doctrine of Roman Catholicism yet I expect 90+% don't have the foggiest idea what Rome teaches. They only quit using Latin a few years back!
     

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