Brewer Chrsitian College and Graduate School?

ACI does not have a good reputation however I would not say that all ACI schools are degree mills. There is a Bible College around this area that is ACI accredited. However they are solid and could qualify for regional or national accreditation (why they don't apply is a mystery to many). However they are realistic. They only offer certificates, associates, and bachelors degree programs. Because of this many seminaries accept their undergraduate degrees. However if they offered graduate degrees those degrees would not be accepted. Andersonville says they are looking into government accreditation. However, in their catalog, they follow that up with clear indications that they will probably not apply. However one day they will be forced to. Trinity College of the Bible and Theological Seminary is now a candidate with a regional accrediting body and will gain accreditation (most likely). And as theological distance education grows (in the next five to ten years) the need for schools like Andersonville will disappear. Also as the public awareness of the problem with fake accreditation (like ACI) the less likely schools that hold ACI accreditation will be able to compete.

I don't know if you have set your mind on Andersonville...it sounds like you have. However I pray that you will strongly consider the information that has been presented in this thread (and on this board in other threads) about the problems with fake accreditation and unaccredited graduate theological distance education. Several others have made some very good points (ITS not meant to be doctorate level, ITS not meant to make the whole degree, etc).

May I ask why you wish to pursue another degree?

In Christ,
Martin.

 

This is not about those who have degrees from these schools. I am sure many of them, as my pastor, worked hard and did the best they could. And I pray that God will use them to the glory of His Kingdom (and if they are sincere I am sure He will). This is not meant to be about or against them in any way, shape, or form. As I said my pastor got two degrees from Covington and today he would be the first to warn against these type of schools.

My purpose in these posts is to prevent other people from making the same mistake my pastor (and thousands of others) have made. These schools are not being honest about the importance of accreditation, and I doubt God approves of such dishonesty. That is why I encourage everyone interested in graduate level theological distance education to go through a fully accredited (RA) seminary/university. Sure it may cost a bit more, and it may be harder work, but in the end it will be worth it.

Now Andersonville is fine for those who just want to study (ie..not looking for an academic degree to use). If someone is just looking for a distance school for that purpose Andersonville is great. However for someone wanting to further their ministry/career Andersonville will not be a good choice.

In Christ,
Martin.

 

Before I give out his name I will have to make sure it is ok with him. What years were you at MABTS?

 

An interesting distance learning opportunity is at California State University - Master of Humanities, that can qualify one for teaching at community colleges if you need 18 credits in history or english, etc.

http://www.csudh.edu/hux/default.html

 

I will see what I can do.

 

You said:
You equate some non- RA schools with academic dishonesty.

==That is not what I am saying. I am saying schools that claim "accreditation" when they are in fact not accredited are being dishonest. A non-accredited school that says "we are not accredited" is not a problem (on or off campus) as far as honesty is concerned. There are many fine non-accredited schools (BJU, for example). However for graduate distance learning it seems better to go with RA-Accredited schools (SACS, etc) or nationally accredited (TRACS, ATS, etc).
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You said:
Some of theses bigger non- RA schools offering these degrees in question would be: LBU, Andersonville, Bethany Divinity and Covington. It is interesting, however, that some, but non many of these schools are very upfront about not being an RA school- that is to be comended.

==Yes, but they claim to be accredited. Non-government approved accreditation is like ice cream without the milk.....whats the point? ACI however is problematic regardless of its government status (see the links I put up last night).
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You said:
It would great to hear a rep from some of these very schools defend the issue of awarding doc degrees. I'm sure it would be interesting. One thing is for sure- they, without question, will have the same fervor that you and others share concerning this often debated topic.

==I am sure they will and I have talked with some (and believe me they have fervor). My concern is still the same, as is my advice. If you are wanting graduate level theological distance education go with a fully accredited school (that is if you are wanting a widely accepted degree).
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You said:
As to why I want another degree- you know what happens to those you stop learning right?

==I think that is a good idea. If you are just looking to study then Andersonville will probably be fine. They do have good courses and ITS offers a good education. However I can only say that if you are not wanting an "academic" education (that means you are just wanting personal study and you are not going for a career where a RA/national accredited school is needed).

Btw, have you heard of Christian Courses ? They offer a totally online study (for certificates or just for fun). They have many of the same profs. that ITS has (Blomberg, etc). I enjoy it, you should check it out (it is not a seminary or college).

In Christ.
Martin.

 

I checked out WACS, and this is fully accredited. I have never heard of this school. However it does show that many regionally accredited schools are offering degrees via distance learning. Theology, for some reason, is behind the times. It is time for more graduate schools of theology and seminaries to start getting into distance learning. Thanks for the link.

Martin.

 

Hey Rd,

Not a problem...

B.A. University of Saskatchewan (Sociology)
M.A. (48 credit hours- Distinguished Graduate) Webster University (Counseling)
D.Min (60 Credit Hours - Highest Honors) American Christian College and Seminary (Christian Counseling)

I am working on an MMin from Nations University for my own edification and to fill some holes in and for fun. I would not do this degree if it were to be my only graduate degree nor if I needed to be guarenteed entry into a doctoral program. It has limited transferability to some other church of Christ schools. May later go back and major in Church History in their MRS degree

North

 

American Christian College was a seminary accredited by TRACS, an agency recognized by the US Department of Education & CHEA.

ACCS was accredited to offer doctorates and developed one a 36 credit hour doctorate (a DMin) for those with an MDiv. They also developed a 60 credit hour doctorate (also a DMin as that is what they were authorized) for those wanting a doctorate in Christian Counseling. Sixty credit hours is the standard for PhD's built on a Masters degree (actually some PhD's programs require 90 credit hours beyond a BA).

The DMin in Christian Counseling offered by ACCS was more than the traditional DMin offered by some seminaries with practical project oriented courses. The DMin was a little more in line with Southern Christian University (a Regional accredited university) that offers a DMin (60 credit hour) in Marriage and Family Ministry Therapy for those without a MDiv. The ACCS coursework paralleled coursework required of licensure Counseling programs with the addition of Systematic Theology and NT/OT. The coursework was Christian oriented. In addition it required an Applied Research Project that was research with a practical bent. Mine came out at 200 pages and that was what was told to me as the approximate expected number of pages. I had a doctoral committee and had to do the oral defense of the ARP. It was scrutinized and revamped. The two people critiquing the development of my dissertation were both PhD's in Counseling from Regionally accredited schools.

I should add that I would have rather had the nomenclature changed and suggested it to Dr. Shealy along with several other issues. He was polite but went into some issues with the stuff necessary to change a degree title with TRACS but they would look into it. I would rather (no offense to DMin's) not done 60 credit hours and what practically amounted to a dissertation to end up with a DMin, a degree that many folks associate with 36 credit hour programs with project oriented coursework.

As I say, I am not insulting DMin's as I have argued on degreeinfo and other places that practically no one does as much coursewrok by the time they get to that level as a pastor with an MDiv and a DMin and has to know Greek to boot. Your typical DMin has about 126 hrs of graduate coursework, where many PhD's have around 90. But the perception of DMin's as a 36 credit hour doctorate made me wish ACCS had used another name for their 60 credit hour DMin (I think BJU has a Doctor of Pastoral Theology or something).

Hope that helps.

North

[ May 15, 2005, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Nord ]