Brief History of Ireland

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Dr. Bob, Nov 28, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Since I know nothing about this place (from which my ancestors fled in 1840-45 during the famine), would appreciate those who live there or who have done study would share a few paragraphs . .
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Give me a couple of days to get something together for you Dr B. Being a former histiry teacher I do enjoy history.

    Very briefly
    Settled by gallic tribal groups starting in about 2000BC
    The first foreign invaders were Vikings, who established several of the modern cities. They quickly amalgamated into Irish society, being the first to become "more Irish than the Irish."

    Through the centuries following the 5 Irish kingdoms battled for superiority.

    In 1170, in the middle of all this a new power moved in when the only English pope, Hadrian, commisioned the English king Henry to carry Catholocism to the land.

    In the 1680's England took control of the land. From about 1800 Ireland was part of the United Kingdom. This lasted until 1922 when the Irish Free State was established as part of the British Commonwealth. As part of the peace treaty ending the Irish War for Independence six counties were retained as part of the UK, known as Northern Ireland. Since the 1920's there has been regular conflict over those six counties. The conflict is over whether those counties will remain part of the UK or be drawn into the Irish Republic (which has been a Republic since 1949).

    Even today's Northern Irish election let us know that the struggle over these six counties continues.

    I am sure that if Ulsterman reads this he will eb happy to correct any misrepresentations about the North :D .
     
  3. Ulsterman

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    C4K, I can't believe you gave a synopsis of Irish history without one word on the Battle of the Boyne, the most significant battle in British/Irish history ! Shame on you ;)

    "As part of the peace treaty ending the Irish War for Independence six counties were retained as part of the UK, known as Northern Ireland. Since the 1920's there has been regular conflict over those six counties. " Which proves then as now you can never trust a peace treaty made with an Irish Republican.
     
  4. Dan Stiles

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    I'd be interested in some reliable references to the name Maloney. I understand it is connected with the Church and comes from Claire and Limmerick, but don't know much more than that.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I did mention it, well, sort of - "In the 1680's England took control of the land." :D
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    The net is the best source now for name research. To get you started the counties are spelled Clare and Limerick, and the source sounds reliable because they are neighbouring counties.
     
  7. Matt Black

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    To add to C4Ks potted history with a bit of my own:-

    Celtic/ Gaelic until the 9th century. Converted by Patrick in early 5th century. Produced many 'saints': Columba, Brigid, Brendan, Pirian, etc who successfully evangelised the British Isles and converted us to a proto-evangelical form of 'Celtic'Christianity before we were 'Romanised'.

    Viking raids and settlements from 9th century eg:they founded Dublin in 841 and a host of other coastal towns; once they stopped raping and pillaging they settled down and became surprisingly good at commerce.

    1159 - the only English Pope, Nicholas Breakspear (r as Adrian VI) authorises the Anglo-Norman king of England, Henry II, to conquer Ireland on his behalf. However, nothing is done for 10 years.

    1169 - This bit is a bit hazy but either Dermot MacMurrough, King of Leinster (one of the main Irish kingdoms), asks Henry II for help in deposing a rival, or his rival asks for help in deposing him. Either way, in 1170, a large contingent of Anglo-Norman knights land in Ireland under the Earl of Pembroke, Strongbow, and claim overlordship in Henry's name. The knights and their successors take control of large tracts of Irish land on the same feudal basis as their predecessors have in England a century earlier, and Roman Catholicism is forcibly introduced. Bear in mind these guys were French rather than English and, like their compatriots in England, were gradually assimilated by the native Gaelic-Norse population. Thus,for example, de Burgh became Burke, Fils Gerald became Fitzgerald (in fact any name with Fitz- in it is Anglo-Norman); other big Anglo-Norman families include the Butlers and Ormonds. After the assimilation, things soon settle down and it is business as usual until...

    1315.Edward the Bruce, brother of Robert the Bruce king of Scotland (from another Anglo-Norman family, the de Braoise's, but assimilitae by Scotland rather tha Ireland) invades Ireland,for a laugh it seems; widespread devastation, social, political and economic devastation follows...

    By 1494, as a result of the above only the area around Dublin is left intact as a non-assimilated Anglo-Norman enclave. Poynings Law of that year reinforces this by creating a 'Pale' of settlement around Dublin reserved for the 'English'; the rest of Ireland is occupied by assimilated Anglo-Irish and Gaelic-speaking 'savages' (NB the 'Pale' concept shaped English patterns of settlement in North America and attitudes towards Native Americans).

    1541. Henry VIII gets rid of the overlordship and becomes King of Ireland. There is by this time an Irish Parliament, but it is largely confined to the Pale. Gradually, the Irish chiefs and landowners, both Gaelic and Anglo-Norman are dispossessed. The Reformation is also introduced from the 1560s, but again is only a real success in the Pale, the Irish (ironically, being the last race in Western Europe to be 'converted' to the Catholic faith) seeing their Catholicism, esp the Tridentine variety, as a badge of nationality to distinguish them from the English and as a rallying-point against them.

    c.1600-1607 Last major rebellion by 'native' Irish under Earls Tyrone and Tyrconnell against English dispossession and rule, leading to the 'flight of the Earls' and the 'plantation of Ulster'...

    More to follow

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  8. Major B

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    Don't forget the book "How the Irish Saved Civilization," which chronicles the preservation of the learning of the ages by Irish monks during the Dark Ages in Europe. Great read.
     
  9. Bible-boy

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    Hey! I was gona suggest that book! :D
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Good job so far Matt!

    I enjoyed the book "How the Irish Saved Civilisation" immensely. Thought it was a little over the top though and a better title might have been, "How the Irish Saved Learning."
     
  11. Matt Black

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    Cheers! More:-

    After the 'Flight of the Earls', Ulster is settled by Protestant(largely Presbyterian) Scottish subjects of James VI/ I and the natives either expelled or left with the poor land. This means the 'Protestant Ascendancy' (hitherto largely the Pale) who can vote for and sit in the Irish Parliament is expanded beyond the Pale to the north-west of the island. The good land is occupied by the Protestants, who improve it and the towns eg: Derry refounded 1611(?) as Londonderry.

    1641. Massacre of Protestants by Catholics. Many atrocities

    1649-50 Ditto in reverse.

    1688 James II of England, a Catholic, is deposed by Parlament and flees to Ireland where his Catholic subjects rally to his cause. They unsuccessfully lay seige to Londonderry.

    1690. James defeated at the Boyne. British (Protestant) control of Ireland firmly established.

    Late 1700s. The Irish Parliament tries to be more independent of Westminster, but is slapped down. This gives rise to two divergent views, one predominately British, the other predominately Irish: the first being that there is not a lot of point in there being an Irish Parliament and it might as well amalgamate with Westminster and the second, that Ireland would be better off more independent in some way.

    1795 The latter view manifests itself in the formation of the United Irishmen under Wolfe Tone, a Protestat lawyer. This is essentially the last time that Catholics and Protestants ar united on anything in Ireland. About the same time, the Orange Order is founded.

    1798 Hoping for French support the UI stage an uprising, which fails, and Tone is executed for treason.

    1801. The rising however gives irrestible power to the other line of thought above - abolition of the Irish Parliament. Accordingly, the Act of Union is passed, uniting the Dublin Parliament with that of Westminster. AS a quid pro quo, Catholic emancipation is promised, but at the last moment George III (just before he goes completely doolally) refuses to violate his coronation oath by ratifying this aspect. So the Catholics get a bum deal.

    1829 Catholic emancipation granted (a year after Baptists were granted similar toleration), but by then other Irish Catholic grievances have surfaced to do with land - unfair rents, absentee landlords, Catholics getting the poorer land etc. These rumble on and off all century

    1845-6 The Great Famine. Nuff said [​IMG]

    Beginning 1886. Various attempts by Liberal governments to introduce Home Rule (devolution/ repeal of the Act of Union) to Ireland to meet Catholic-Nationalist demands. They founder because of (a) Conservative opposition in the House of Lords and (b) opposition by the Protestant majority in Ulster, led by Randolph Churchill (father of Winston) and Sir Edward "No Surrender" Carson. This opposition culminates in 1914 with this Unionist faction arming themselves in preparation for a civil war and the army being unwilling to suppress this. Fortunately (?) WWI breaks out and puts this on hold for a few years.

    1906 Sinn Fein, political party committed to full independence for all Ireland as a Republic, formed.

    1916 Sinn Fein stage Easter Rising in Dublin - fails and main perpetrators executed. This leas to popular support for them, hitherto lukewarm, to grow, so that...

    1918 Sinn Fein win majority of Irish seats in WEstmister elections, but refuse to take them up, instead forming own Parliament (Dail Eireann) in Dublin. All sides now arm and resort to violence...

    1919-23 Civil War. Atrocities by both sides. Ireland partitioned with six of the nine Ulster counties having their own Parliament with an inbuilt Protestant Unionist majority (gerrymandering, vote based on property so Protestants, who tend to be have more and better property/ land get more votes than Catholics)as Northern Ireland and the remaining 26 counties having a Parliament in Dublin, which becomes increasingly independent and Republican, culminating in 1949 with the 26 counties becoming the Irish Republic.

    1968 Catholics in Northern Ireland, inspired in part by the Civil Rights Movement in the US, campaign for their own civil rights, leading to sectarian riots and conflict, leading to 'the Troubles'...we now move into 'living memory' - the rest you largely know I guess.

    I'm sure Ulsterman can fill you in more!

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Absolutely fascinating. Know it took time but I for one am grateful.

    And grateful Abraham Kennedy and Jesse Griffin's families survived the first year of famine in '41 and headed to Halifax . .
     
  13. Ulsterman

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    Grand job Matt, a very good history of Ireland - do you fancy applying for the post of Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? ;)
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Great unbiased history Matt! You did a much better job than I would have done.
     
  15. fromtheright

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    C4K and Matt,

    Thank you both for the history, and to Dr. Bob for the question. Being part Irish myself, it is part of my son's and my history. I am curious as to your two perspectives on the Irish Republican movement. I am sympathetic from a self-determination point of view, but (1) I don't know if there is a solid majority view within Northern Ireland on independence and (2) I oppose the use of terrorism to achieve their ends.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Ulsterman will not believe this post, and since I do not live up there it is a little unfair former to say, but I support self-determination.
    What is happening in the North now with terrorists being accepted as legitimate political leaders is not right. The terrorists have played a long term wearing down game that appears to have worked. The majority in the North do not want to be a part of Eire, most are content to be part of the UK, some would like an independent Northern Irish state.

    How about a personal assessment Ulsterman?
     
  17. Ulsterman

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    I am surprised you didn't bother to ask the person who actually lives in Northern Ireland. In any case, in answer to your question, there is a solid majority view in favour of Northern Ireland remaining as part of the United Kingdom. The people here are not oppressed by British rule, we have the most stringent equality laws in Europe, and the terrorist campaign of the past 33 years has no justification whatsoever.

    Unionists recognise the democratic right of legitimate nationalism to promote its view, but is totally opposed to violent Republicanism which has robbed a generation of peace, and now masquerades in suits as politicians and statesmen whilst continuing to hold on to its private army and amassing information so as to target those who uphold law and order.
     
  18. fromtheright

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    Ulsterman,

    I am surprised you didn't bother to ask the person who actually lives in Northern Ireland.

    You're absolutely right, I just didn't think about it and got in a hurry doing the post. And thank you very, very much for the answer.
     
  19. The Galatian

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    Obviously, there will be no peace until the areas of Northern Ireland with Catholic majorities are permitted self-determination.

    The alternative is to let the differing birth rates in Northern Ireland go for a couple of decades. It won't be better then.
     
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    That would be an interesting map. Nationalist and Republican areas of Belfast and other areas of the North are interspersed. There are not "areas" as you envision.

    How far would you carry "self determination" in American cities?
     

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