Bush Has Crossed the Rubicon

He has admittedly bypassed the Constitutional controls on wiretaps, because he believed the special court set up to monitor them, would not approve some of them. </font>[/QUOTE]Can you show me in the Constitution where it states anything about controls on wiretaps. Also I post for the umpteenth time:

"The New York Times, which first disclosed the existence of the NSA program last week, also cited unnamed sources who said the administration used two other opinions to justify its actions. One was embedded in a public Justice Department brief from 2002 and another was in a 2002 opinion issued by the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review that oversees the secretive court that usually deals with terror-related wiretap requests.

In 2002, that FISA review court upheld the president's warrantless search powers, referencing a 1980 Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals decision. That court held that "the president did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. ... We take for granted that the president does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the president’s constitutional power," wrote the court.

"The Foreign Intelligence Court of Review, which is the highest court that's looked at these questions, has said that the president has the inherent constitutional authority to use electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence and Congress cannot take away that constitutional authority. That's a pretty good argument," Bryan Cunningham, former National Security Council legal adviser, told FOX News."

Until the Fourth Circuit is over ruled by the Supreme Court the President has "inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information."

Now if you are talking to foreign terrorists then the NSA should be listening to your conversations.

 

Reminder: Inuendoes and/or namecalling towards other members are deleted without warning. Please continue to debate the issues - no personal attacks.

Thanks,
Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

Thank you, Lady Eagle.

Under "unreasonable search and seizure." The courts have been very firm on this.

And yes, the president can gather foreign intelligence. Not domestic spying, as Bush now admits he did. That is a violation of the law.

I gather, since you didn't bother to deny it, that you realize Bush claims he can take away your Constitutional right to due process by simply declaring you an enemy.

 

Can show me in the Constitution where it says anything about controls on a 1984 style telescreen?

Big Brother may not be watching yet, but he is listening.

 

Big Brother is watching. Ever check out all the "security" cameras in parking lots, on interstates (watching traffic violations), on city streets (watching for people running red lights), etc....???? And they can zoom right in, read your tags and see you sitting behind the wheel. So, I would say Big Brother is watching or at least a relative of Big Brother.....

 

I can accept that I'm on display when I'm in public. I am not ready to let Big Brother go through my mail, listen in on my phone calls, or sort through my search engine usage.

It's time we kept a better eye on Bush, not the other way around.

 

Here is the Big Brother mindset - I think it appropriate. This is from chapter five of 1984 - you might want to have a read for context.

We had better be careful that we all are wearing the right shoes.

 

Under "unreasonable search and seizure." The courts have been very firm on this.

And yes, the president can gather foreign intelligence. Not domestic spying, as Bush now admits he did. That is a violation of the law.

I gather, since you didn't bother to deny it, that you realize Bush claims he can take away your Constitutional right to due process by simply declaring you an enemy. </font>[/QUOTE]Your above statement is untrue. The NSA listened to conversations between foreign terrorists and people in this country. You Bush Haters are will have to find something else to beat Bush over the head with.

 

It is true that the Israelis spyed on the US, it is true that Clinton had Aldritch Ames' house bugged, it is true that the Clinton White House illegally had raw FBI files. Now provide some proof for your other statements or are you just blowing wind?

 

If Bush is a dictator, then he has failed in the first requirement -- to supress the opposition. I am so amused by those who label him a tyrant, dictator, out to seize power, etc. The very fact that these people are free to rant negates their argument.

A dictator would have silenced them long ago.

 

If they ever get their way and the radical left takes over they will be the first to GO!

 

Bush Has spyed on the Quakers
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According to the documents, the Pledge of Resistance-Baltimore has been monitored by the NSA working with the Baltimore Intelligence Unit, part of the Baltimore City Police Department.

The documents, which follow, came as a result of litigation in the August 2003 trial of Marilyn Carlisle and Cindy Farquhar. An NSA security official provided the defendants with a redacted Action Plan and a redacted copy of a Joint Terrorism Task Force email about the activities of the Pledge of Resistance activities.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/NSA_documents_show_massive_spy_operation_0110.html
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You will find NSA documentation on this event and it had nothing to do with any conversations with forgien terrorist.
It is time that people of this country to stop makeing excuses for Bush and covering up for Bush's deciet.

 

A close look at that document shows that they were logs of activity conducted in public. Not electronic eavesdropping, no warrantless inderdiction of communications, etc.

Activities conducted in public are, by definition, not shielded from observation.

 

From Quakers to Vegetarians the next threat to the security of America.
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The ACLU of Georgia released copies of government files on Wednesday that illustrate the extent to which the FBI, the DeKalb County Division of Homeland Security and other government agencies have gone to compile information on Georgians suspected of being threats simply for expressing controversial opinions.
Two documents relating to anti-war and anti-government protests, and a vegan rally, prove the agencies have been "spying" on Georgia residents unconstitutionally, the ACLU said. (Related: ACLU Complaint -- PDF file)

For example, more than two dozen government surveillance photographs show 22-year-old Caitlin Childs of Atlanta, a strict vegetarian, and other vegans picketing against meat eating, in December 2003. They staged their protest outside a HoneyBaked Ham store on Buford Highway in DeKalb County.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75151

Meat Eaters Rule!

 

The Israeli Spy Ring Scandal.

The Franklin/AIPAC Spy Case Page.

COINTELPRO

Don't you ever read the news OR? </font>[/QUOTE]What is your point PONCHO? I stated that Israel spyed against the US. Nations always spy on other nations; that is not unconstitutional!

What does your reference to Hoover's activities have to do with events today? Gre Real; just as a novelity.

By the way, I have no doubt that you have committed the information in the above references to memory.