Bush lied about WMD's?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Nonsequitur, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. Nonsequitur

    Nonsequitur
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    This is from one our men over in the Middle East, posting on one of the gun forums that I read. He is the one responding to the quote. Used with his permission.----Nonsequitur


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by ********.
    I need some article to tell me why we went to Iraq. We went because A) Weapons of Mass Destruction, B) Link to Al Qaeda and 9/11, and C) An imminent threat to the US security. Guess what? None of those turned out to be true. Saying that we're in Iraq for the better good of the people does not make up for being lied to, and it was not the biggest reason we went to war in the first place, though it's about the only good by-product of this mess. If liberating oppressed peoples was first on our agenda, there would a litany of places on our list WAY ahead of Iraq. Darfur would be first.

    And no, I'm not "liberal." After all, I voted for this idiot.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Ah, no. We didn't go to war in Iraq because of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Not exactly.

    We went to war because Saddam Hussein has been on probabtion since 1991. Problem is that in the 1990s, Saddam's probation officer was a combination of the U.N., which he apparently bought, and Bill Clinton, who just didn't want to be bothered with Iraq policy.

    In 2000, Saddam got a new probation officer. Anti-Bush people made a lot of noise about Bush planning to remove Saddam since he came into office as if this was a big deal. A sign that he was waiting for just the right moment to have a war. So what if he was? By any standard of international law, Saddam had been flouting his probabtion for 11 years. Bush could see that. I could see that. Anyone who ever read a news story about the $250,000 bounty Saddam offered for any missile or gun battery that could knock down a coaltion plane patrolling the no-fly areas he agreed to could see it.

    So how exactly did we not go to war because of WMDs that didn't exist?

    It wasn't about whether or not they existed. Not precisely. It was about transparency.

    The burden of proof never rested with us. We never had to prove whether Saddam was in compliance or not. After the liberation we looked long and hard for WMDs and the fact that we didn't find any MEANS NOTHING.

    Understand? It was never incumbent upon us to find them or not find them.

    It was incumbent upon Saddam in those last few months given to him to just go totally transparent. Remember the checklist of things he had to do to show compliance? Like allowing any weapons scientist the chance to talk to inspectors, even outside of the country where they could be given asylum?

    Yeah. That stuff.

    So how is it that Bush lied and people died?

    Saddam had one last chance. No more stupid Arab face-saving shennanigans. No more lies or obfuscation.

    "Do these things and you will continue to be President of Iraq. You started the war in 1991, you lost. You exist now only at our leisure. You rule only by our allowance, but you have continued to hide things. Understand that you are not even allowed to pretend like you have secrets concerning WMDs."

    Simple. Easy to understand. I could've done it.

    Well, he didn't do it. That is why we went to war.

    Not because of real or imagined stockpiles of WMDs. Not because we had to prove anything. He was given an ultimatum and he refused.

    I don't know why the post-liberation search for WMDs was so important in retrospect. Like Jon Stewart would judge whether or not the war was justified by whether or not we ever found anything buried out in the desert? Well, he did. Great comedy, I guess. The war was justified before any U.S. soldier set foot on Iraqi soil because Saddam continued to break probation. Period.

    On the last day of the search for WMDs by American soldiers there should've been a camera crew filming the last soldier coming out of a hole in the ground, the last place searched for a WMD.

    The dusty, tired soldier merely needed to turn the camera and say, "Well, nothing here. Looks like Saddam went and screwed himself out of a really sweet deal with that non-compliance crap. A shame. Otherwise, I'd be back home right now."

    And after that, we need never have heard about WMDs again. Only about broken cease-fire treaties and the importance of a little humility and honesty from time to time.

    You see, guys like me get tired of explaining this conveniently forgotten history. Three and half years is a long time. The other side, which tries to reduce the war into pithy, easily chanted slogans like "Bush lied and people died" do not have to go into belaboured history lessons like I just did.

    Nor lessons on historical precedent concerning the Law of War or international treaties to end hostilities.

    They need merely to chant.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "So they still control the House, Senate, and Oval Office? Well, at least we still have the smug, condescending attitude that cost us the election in the first place."
     
  2. freedom's cause

    freedom's cause
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    Thank our God for President Bush
    the fact that he was elected twice
    should speak volumes to those who hate
    his actions concerning Iraq and Afghanistan
    but ask those who are there they are loving
    their new democracy who caused that
    GEORGE W BUSH and our brave military
    if they are not allowed to be free why should we be America has only achieved it's greatness Freedom because it fought for it and God helped us win and that freedom for all it's citizens

    Thank you Dear God and Thank you President Bush and our brave soldiers
    the victory
     
  3. webdog

    webdog
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    Two excellent posts! Great job! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
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    Open criticism of the President as a member of the Armed Forces is punishable by the Uniform Code of military Justice.

    This soldier should keep his critism to himself.
     
  5. Johnv

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    Curious. I'd like to see this.
     
  6. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Bush was not elected, he fraudulently stole both elections.

    http://www.rense.com/general59/how.htm
     
  7. Johnv

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    Absolute crock! He was duly elected in accordance with the Constitution.
     
  8. carpro

    carpro
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    Curious. I'd like to see this. </font>[/QUOTE]http://www.army.mil/references/UCMJ/ucmj2.html#888.%20ART.%2088.%20CONTEMPT%20TOWARD%20OFFICIALS

    888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
    Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
    889. ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER
    Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

    And if those won't cover it, the UCMJ "catch all" article will.


    934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
    Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
     
  9. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Prophecynut or Conspiracynut?

    Can elections be stolen? Yes.

    Can a professing conservative Republican steal an election where a significant majority of the press dislike and distrust him? Not very likely.

    People who are this desperate to explain away Bush's victories need to just take a humble pill and realize that the voters disagreed with them (in the constitutionally prescribed way) about who the president should be.

    2000 was close. 2004 was not. Get over it.

    In retrospect, it probably would have been better for the long haul if Bush had lost in 2000 then "rescued" the country from the incompetent disaster a Gore presidency would have been. With his policy ideals, the recession probably would have turned into the stagflation we saw in the late 70's.

    As it is, current events may lead to a RINO or Democratic president in 2008... just in time for Supreme Court Justices to name several SCOTUS members and sustain rule by judicial fiat for the forseeable future.
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Carpro,

    The military provision does not make it a crime to criticize the President. It makes it a crime to use "contemptuous words". There's quite a bit of difference there. What is deemed to be "contemptuous" is quite open to interpretation. However, I don't think that criticism or disagreement in and of itself automatically qualifies as "contemptuous" in this provision.
     
  11. poncho

    poncho
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    "Can a professing conservative Republican steal an election where a significant majority of the press dislike and distrust him? Not very likely."

    Sure he can with a little help from the monopoly media (5 or 6 corporations) which is supported by advertisers such as...


    1. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Bentonville, Ark., 1, $258.681

    2. Exxon Mobil Corp., Irving, Texas, 3, $213.199

    3. General Motors Corp., Detroit, 2, $195.645

    4. Ford Motor Co., Dearborn, Mich., 4, $164.496

    5. General Electric Co., Fairfield, Conn., 5, $134.187

    6. ChevronTexaco Corp., San Ramon, Calif., 7, $112.937

    7. ConocoPhillips, Houston, 12, $99.468

    8. Citigroup Inc., New York, 6, $94.713

    9. International Business Machines Corp., Armonk, N.Y., 8, $89.131

    10. American International Group, Inc., New York, 9, $81.300

    11. Hewlett-Packard Co., Palo Alto, Calif., 14, $73.061

    12. Verizon Communications Inc., New York, 10, $67.752

    13. The Home Depot Inc., Atlanta, 13, $64.816

    14. Berkshire Hathaway Inc., Omaha, Neb., 28, $63.859

    15. Altria Group Inc., New York, 11, $60.704

    16. McKesson Corp., San Francisco, 20, $57.129

    17. Cardinal Health Inc., Dublin, Ohio, 19, $56.830

    18. State Farm Insurance Cos., Bloomington, Ill., 21, $56.065

    19. The Kroger Co., Cincinnati, 18, $53.791

    20. Fannie Mae, Washington, D.C., 16, $53.767

    21. The Boeing Co., Chicago, 15, $50.485

    22. AmerisourceBergen Corp., Chesterbrook, Pa., 24, $49.657

    23. Target Corp., Minneapolis, 25, $48.163

    24. Bank of America Corp., Charlotte, N.C., 23, $48.065

    25. Pfizer Inc., New York, 37, $45.950

    26. J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., New York, 26, $44.363

    27. Time Warner Inc., New York, 29, $43.877

    28. The Procter & Gamble Co., Cincinnati, 31, $43.377

    29. Costco Wholesale Corp., Issaquah, Wash., 33, $42.546

    30. Johnson & Johnson, New Brunswick, N.J., 34, $41.862

    31. Dell Inc., Round Rock, Texas, 36, $41.444

    32. Sears Roebuck and Co., Hoffman Estates, Ill., 30, $41.124

    33. SBC Communications Inc., San Antonio, 27, $40.843

    34. Valero Energy Corp, San Antonio, 55, $37.969

    35. Marathon Oil Corp., Houston, 52, $37.137

    36. MetLife Inc., New York, 38, $36.261

    37. Safeway Inc., Pleasanton, Calif., 41, $35.553

    38. Albertson's Inc., Boise, Idaho, 35, $35.436

    39. Morgan Stanley, New York, 40, $34.933

    40. AT&T, Bedminster, N.J., 22, $34.529

    41. Medco Health Solutions, Franklin Lakes, N.J., new to list, $34.265

    42. United Parcel Service Inc., Atlanta, 43, $33.485

    43. J.C. Penney Co. Inc., Plano, Texas, 42, $32.923

    44. The Dow Chemical Co., Midland, Mich., 51, $32.632

    45. Walgreen Co., Deerfield, Ill., 45, $32.505

    46. Microsoft Corp., Redmond, Wash., 47, $32.187

    47. The Allstate Corp., Northbrook, Ill., 44, $32.149

    48. Lockheed Martin Corp., Bethesda, Md., 56, $31.844

    49. Wells Fargo & Co., San Francisco, 46, $31.800

    50. Lowe's Cos. Inc., Mooresville, N.C., 60, $31.263

    The list goes on.
     
  12. Scott J

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    You bet Poncho... Why did they want him in office? For the sport of publicly destroying him?
     
  13. carpro

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    Not automatically but most troops are made aware that article 134 is there to cover anything that's not covered elsewhere. An argument could also be made that "contemptuous" and "critical" , could in certain cases , be tantamount to the same thing.

    These particular articles of the UCMJ also mentions "officers" in particular. It appears that it may not apply to enlisted personnel. Once again, article 134 rises to the occasion.

    The conclusion is that, if you are in the armed forces, you'd best keep your mouth shut about your superior officers and civilian leaders. There's a fine line between being critical and contemptuous.
     
  14. poncho

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    They don't care about politics ScottJ. They care about two things.

    Money and control.

    They'll use republicans as well as democrats to meet these ends. The liberal media is an illusion that serves their purposes...to make money and control opinion so they can make money.
     
  15. elijah_lives

    elijah_lives
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    Open criticism of the President as a member of the Armed Forces is punishable by the Uniform Code of military Justice.

    This was specifically used in one unit I served with to silence criticism of then-President Clinton.
     
  16. Dragoon68

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    Curious. I'd like to see this. </font>[/QUOTE]http://www.army.mil/references/UCMJ/ucmj2.html#888.%20ART.%2088.%20CONTEMPT%20TOWARD%20OFFICIALS

    888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
    Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
    889. ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER
    Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

    And if those won't cover it, the UCMJ "catch all" article will.


    934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
    Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Good job, Carpro! You beat me to it!
     
  17. OldRegular

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    Bush was not elected, he fraudulently stole both elections.

    http://www.rense.com/general59/how.htm
    </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. Tommy Jefferson

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    I'll tell you why. It's critically important because WMD's are what the administration used to convince the American people of the need for war.

    Bush's deception has so far cost the lives of over 3,000 American soldiers and added another Trillion dollars to our already insane 9 Trillion dollar national debt.

    Lying is wrong. Lying that kills innocents and sinks people into debt is just plain evil.

    Anyone who condones this shares in that sin and should be ashamed. They should fall to their knees and beg God's forgiveness for their evil.
     
  19. hillclimber1

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    Is there no end to the bitterness of the left toward this President?
     
    #19 hillclimber1, Jul 21, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2007
  20. saturneptune

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    Again, this is a dilemma for conservatives. Only conservatives have a complaint about Mr. Bush. All of you left wing liberals should be on cloud 9, in the fact he is just like you: unbalanced budgets, uncontrolled borders and failed immigration policy, inablility to execute a winnable war, inept leadership, failure to address social security, no action on abortion, and a steady march towards a one world mind set.

    In fact, he sounds like the exact candidate you should nominate in 2008.
     

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