Bush Secretly Lifted Some Limits on Spying in U.S.

They opposed the state. Destroyed the property of loyalists. Tarred and feathered people who opposed them... which was not funny or painless... and aghast, freed slaves that promised to fight with them.

They as rebels against their sovereign king and government killed his soldiers, sank his ships, burned his buildings, etc. They sabotaged him in every way they could.

Francis Marion in SC was well known for his raids not only against British and Tory troops but also against loyalist civilians.

It is a matter of whose ox is being gored. We consider them patriots... our beloved founders. We honor them. I am proud to say one of my direct ancestors was among them and signed the Declaration of Independence, William Hooper.

But that isn't the way the British and loyalists thought of them. They were considered insurrectionists, disloyal to their country, dishonorable, and criminal... if the word had been popularized... they undoubtedly would have been considered "terrorists".

 

Wonder if this is for real, I got an idea. Let's ask a U.S. senator and find out. Reply from Ok senator Inhofe.

I know Danny Wolf personally and know that he would gladly answer anyones email to verify the letter. [email protected] yes I do have his permission to post his email address.

 

James Risen is hawking a book that will be released in a couple of weeks. When it's all said and done, there's not going to be anything to this, just a bad reporter trying to sell a book.

 

My how quickly we forget the world we grew up in.

When telephones first came into existence Mrs. Smith operated the switchboard down at the phone company. When you turned the crank she picked up and asked who you'd like to be connected to. She then would connect you. Everybody knew that Mrs. Smith knew everything going on in town. Where do you think the police chief went when he needed a hot lead? Straight to Mrs. Smith who knew everything.

We then graduated to party lines. A whole bunch of people would have telephones all on a single party line. You couldn't talk if somebody else was using the phone, but when you picked up you could hear everything your neighbor was saying to whoever he was talking to. And by the way you knew when your neighbor was on the phone and he knew when you were on the phone because everybody's phone rang when a call came in and everybody had a distinctive ring.

So you see many of us grew up knowing that the telephone was an insecure communications device.

What amazes me is that Terrorists and criminals have more rights than we honest folks did growing up. When did all that change? I must have missed something.

 

Sure would seem to be the case JGrubbs.

 

If you don't have anything to hide, what's the big deal? Especially, if it will protect thousands of people if a terrorist is stopped. </font>[/QUOTE] Whooooooaaaa Phillip. I feel often that I have a mind meld with you when you write but this needs more consideration.

What if what you needed to hide happened to be hate speech/thought against homosexuals? What if the government wanted to make you spy against a friend and used personal info divulged in private conversations to manipulate you?

This is a Pandora's box. The rationale we accept today better be narrow enough to prevent expansion later.

Our nation was founded by people commonly considered terrorists. It is necessary for government to fear the people and that includes preserving enough privacy that people can plot a rebellion against the government if necessary.

And that's the worst thing. </font>[/QUOTE]Scott, this is a great post!

 

That's too bad....REALLY. I would give them an ear full about what they're doing wrong in both domestic AND foreign policy. I've harped so much on the phone about illegal aliens, it would have given the wire tappers a migraine. I wish they would wire tap a few disgruntled conservative Republican Americans when we're discussing politics. Seriously. They might clean up their act.

 

Folks this is so simple and obvious you should get it. But I know some of you wont.

It is better to loose a little privacy and freedom now, and keep the bulk of it later.

I the terrorist ever explode an atomic bomb in an American city, privacy will be a thing of the past. It will become necessary for the government to override all of your privacy in order to stop a second US city from being blown to smithereens......GET IT?

 

And as we go along the government will want people to give a little more and then a little more and then a little more...

What a defeatist attitude some people apparently have. And how quickly they forget:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

 

Our founding fathers has no concepts of devices that can take out a million folks at once and cause terrible economic lose, not to mention the years of contamination. Trust me you would rather give your government a little lea way now than to loose New York and then live in a country in which everyone is glad to give up there freedom so as not to loose more cities.

Also, notice Franklin said "essential" liberty. Having your picture taken in a public place by the FBI while your are rally for Islam is not a violation of your essential liberty.

And besides, there are private oganizations that know just about everything you do, so the government is not doing anything more than they are. If you really cared about essential liberty, you should have made sure you never got a social security number, but I guess you are willing to give some privacy up for a little retirement pay, eh?

 

Is that joint Phoenix task force a model for all big cities or just a result of some sheriff's misguided ego?

The rules of national security are changing, they have to. The founders couldn't have seen the Muslim terrorism future.

 

The problem with all this is that the focus is not on Islamist, but on normal citizens, such as me and my family, right wing conservative Christians, who demand change in the government.

Something is very wrong when my daughters and my father are searched at the airport as Muslims in sheets and turbins march on board unsearched. And it happens all the time. I've personally not seen a Muslim searched ever.

 

You probably won't, either, hillclimber, because our government is afraid of CAIR.

 

You mean they never heard of the plague? Boy they must have really been lost without Rupert Murdoch.

What's that you have, is that a pocket constitution? Get down on your belly hands behind your back, I'll just gently place my boot on your extremist neck while my partner puts on the cuffs.

 

Bush Admits Authorizing Spying LINK