Bush Total Cabinet Resignations?

I think it is 15 now, and maybe more to come. This has never happened in the HISTORY of the U.S. Presidency. Infact never in any Foriegn Presidency for the matter!

Ron

 

Can you document that there has never been a total cabinet reshuffle in any nation ever?

 

Ahh is that what you call it? I do not know where you're from but I am a Washingtonian and cannot be spun at all!

The Question is, can you document that it has not?

What I do know for a FACT is that it has never happened in America's HISTORY! And I am will to put all I have on that it has not happened in ANY OTHER NATION!

Why is it happening? I know, but do you know, or are you comfortable living in fantasy?

Ron

 

Some of them were more or less fired. Today's papers are saying that Snow will not be replaced at Treasury.

I think that it is a good thing to have this shuffle. The first-term cabinet was appointed for peacetime and was thrust into war by Nine Eleven. Some are tired, some are broke, some have been fired. Several who have left have done a very good job. I would like to see Gov. Ridge on the national stage again. Also, Gov. Thompson did well.

Considering the low pay for cabinet secretaries in comparison to what they could earn in the business world, it is well that they served for as long as they did. Many people do not want to serve at all because they have children to educate or do not want to lower their standard of living for a thankless job in government. The GOP has a wealth of talent and it is good to rotate the offices since it is the will of the President. It is not like it was in the 1950s when the GOP had been in the wilderness for twenty years and had to nuture talent.

I do not care whom Bush chooses to be his personal advisers in the cabinet.

 

Some facts and comparisions are certainly in order here.

The number of cabinet resignations is 8, according to FoxNews.com, dated this morning.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140916,00.html

Given the two earlier turnovers, that makes a total of 10 in the first term. Historically, 10 turnovers is not abnormal at all for a first term president. Most presidents go through people within the term itself. Bush was unique in that he only had two turnovers during his term; most of them came at the end. Had Bush lost, his cabinet turnover would have been only 2 out of 17 (Martinez and ONeill) and would have been one of the lowest ever.

The most ever percentage-wise was John Tyler who had all but one resign in protest over his policies. I am not sure how many secretaries there were back then. At one point in his presidency, Carter demanded the resignation of all his secretaries, but later only accepted five. In all, he lost 8 out of 13 secretaries during his one term. During Clinton's terms, he four commerce secretaries and three secretaries of treasury, defense, and energy. Only his attorney general and secretaries of the interior, education, and health and human services endured all eight years of Clinton's presidency. All of this info, plus more is found at:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041115/clm094_1.html


So cabinet turnover of this nature is not uncommon, it appears from history.

But beyond that, so what? I am not sure this says anything than that people have other interests. There is no sign that any of them are resigning in protest. They may be, but there has been no indication of that that I have seen. Most of these were well known from long before the election.

Here is an interesting page: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=429645

So Ronald, it has happened in our country before, and historically, Bush seems to have been above average in cabinet retention.

Where did you get your information about why it is happening? Why don't you enlighten us?

<edited only to repair a link - C4K>

[ December 09, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Ahh is that what you call it? I do not know where you're from but I am a Washingtonian and cannot be spun at all!

The Question is, can you document that it has not?

What I do know for a FACT is that it has never happened in America's HISTORY! And I am will to put all I have on that it has not happened in ANY OTHER NATION!

Why is it happening? I know, but do you know, or are you comfortable living in fantasy?

Ron </font>[/QUOTE]You made the claim - it is up to you to document it. Thats how things work .

It is obvious you are new here. I am not a Bush supporter, did not vote for him in the last election, etc.

I am simply opposed to unsubstantiated claims.

 

Ahh is that what you call it? I do not know where you're from but I am a Washingtonian and cannot be spun at all!

The Question is, can you document that it has not?

What I do know for a FACT is that it has never happened in America's HISTORY! And I am will to put all I have on that it has not happened in ANY OTHER NATION!

Why is it happening? I know, but do you know, or are you comfortable living in fantasy?

Ron </font>[/QUOTE]You made the claim - it is up to you to document it. Thats how things work .

It is obvious you are new here. I am not a Bush supporter, did not vote for him in the last election, etc.

I am simply opposed to unsubstantiated claims. </font>[/QUOTE]If you have a problem with the Claims, then show something that opposes what I wrote. I you are have any resources that state other wise please show them, but I do not have any references for Foreign Nations, but the point you clearly missed was that this is unprecedent in the history of National Presidental HISTORY!

Ron

 

Ron,

Did you read my post? I showed your claim to be wrong. I have shown you the resources to check it out. You were wrong about the number who have resigned and you were wrong about this being unprecedented in history.

 

Rumsfield and Snow are least are staying. Here is an article form six days ago with those remaining and their chance of doing so:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/article/index.cfm/i/120304b_cabinet

The last French election saw all but three mumbers leave or change seats. The last Irish cabinet reshuffle saw al but three members do the same.

These results with only a few minutes online research.

This refutes both of your claims.

Using logic that says "prove me worng or I am right" I hereby make this claim:

"Total cabinet reshuffles are not unusual in world politics and President Bush's reshuffle is not exceptional" - Now, prove me wrong.

 

While we're busy making unsubstantiated claims that we wish others to refute, here is mine.

I am master overlord of the Planet Xorphinam. We are a race made of purple and green people who were once shunned from earth as 'coloreds'. We will return in the year 3089 to wreak havoc on you puny earthlings and to enslave your children to work in our chocolate mines.

This is a fact, unless of course you can prove otherwise.


Seriously though, so many here have criticized the way President Bush and his cabinet have done things so far, I would think everyone would be happy that he is looking to go in a new direction by changing cabinet members. With the majority of changes so far, it appears that more qualified people are being placed in those jobs for his new term.

 

Point well made

 

Pastor Larry,

I stand corrected, 16, one being the Deputy to Powell. More will come and it will be unprecedented in the History of US Presidency.

Now the article you provided from Yahoofinance is dated November 15th, and it it states that 8 have resigned; But Principi has resigned!

"In all, eight people have resigned from Bush's original cabinet. In 2001, Mel Martinez, housing and urban development secretary, and Paul O'Neill, treasury secretary, stepped down."

" Reagan saw all but one of his cabinet positions change hands during his two terms in office from 1981-1989."

Now I have a list of Heads that Served UNDER THEIR BOSS "GEORGE W. BUSH", who resigned;

1.Ann M. Veneman
2.Don Evans
3.Rod Paige
4.Spencer Abraham
5.Tommy Thompson
6.Tom Ridge
7.John Ashcroft
8.Colin Powell
9.Anthony Principi
10.Christie Whitman
11.George J. Tenet
12.James Pavitt
13.Rosario Marin
14.Joe Allbaugh
15.Ari Fleischer
16.Richard Armitage (Colin Powells Deputy) if you choose to count him!

Ron

 

I have no qualms about the number of resignations. In fact, I think it's good that he is willing to make changes.

Unfortunately, as far as I can see, the new ones are pretty much the same as the old ones. Big government, New World Order socialists who will contiune dismantling our great nation for the profit and power of their friends and associates.

 

YOu stand corrected even more than you think. There were not 16 cabinet resignations. The topic here is cabinet resignations, and as of this morning (Dec 9), FoxNews reports 8 cabinet resignations. I already gave you the link. It appears from your list that only the first 9 are cabinet secretaries.

Others are not included in that count, and there is absolutely no reason to think it will be unprecedented, but even more, there is no reason to care. Changes in these positions are routine in every administration.

What is your problem?

 

...as Ron has his first experience with the eloquent savagery of the Pastor.

 

In this case Pastor Larry is dead right. Ron hasn't a leg to stand on.

He first said that 15 cabinet members have resigned - now he says 9. He says it has never happened in the US or anywhere in the world. He has dropped that arguement now that it has been disproven.

And even IF it was true, what does that prove.

Everyone knows that I am no Bush supporters, but this looking for reasons to attack him is, well, questionable, to say the least.

 

Oh great master overlord,

Can you get us wholesale prices on freshly-mined Xorphinamian chocolate?

 

Yes, Larry is correct. But that doesn't mean that Ron is dirt.

 

What that is really funny! I do not need reasons to attack BUSH, but who attack him without reason. I could give you plenty of reasons to attack his so-called Christianity and his trust as a truthful leader, ALL FROM HIS OWN MOUTH!

But that would not matter to you anyway!

Ron