Bush will veto anti-torture law after Senate revolt

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    The Bush administration pledged yesterday to veto legislation banning the torture of prisoners by US troops after an overwhelming and almost unprecedented revolt by loyalist congressmen.

    The mutiny was the latest setback for an administration facing an increasingly independent and bloody-minded legislature. But it also marked a key moment in Congress's campaign to curtail the huge powers it has granted the White House since 2001 in its war against terrorism.

    The late-night Senate vote saw the measure forbidding torture passed by 90 to nine, with most Republicans backing the measure. Most senators said the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal and similar allegations at the Guantanamo Bay prison rendered the result a foregone conclusion.

    The administration's extraordinary isolation was underlined when the Senate Republican majority leader, Bill Frist, supported the amendment.

    The man behind the legislation, Republican Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner in Vietnam, said the move was backed by American soldiers. His amendment would prohibit the "cruel, inhumane or degrading" treatment of prisoners in the custody of America's defence department.

    The vote was one of the largest and best supported congressional revolts during President George W Bush's five years in office and shocked the White House.

    SOURCE
     
  2. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I thought we already had anti-torture legislation.
     
  3. Brother James

    Brother James
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    0
    Apparently not. I find it amusing that our "born again" president is upset that the senate doesn't want him to torture people. How do you do that antway? Do you have a prayer meeting before you beat the guy? Do you invoke the blessings of Christ before you attache electrodes to thier private parts?
     
  4. SeekingTruth

    SeekingTruth
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    BJ, In effect as signatories of the Geneva Convention, we do have laws against torture. Furhtermore, since the prisoners currently in question are not soldiers, but terrorists, they are protected by law.

    By the way, what evidence do you have that President Bush wants to torture people? Can you provide a source to support your claim? I was wondering if you held prayer meeting before posting such baseless claims.
     
  5. Brother James

    Brother James
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another of the party faithfull. Since he was not truthfull about the entire Iraq matter to begin with I just took the other for granted, especially since he wants to veto such a common sense thing.
     
  6. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    We have international treaties which should have the force of law...but if we make new classifications that aren't covered or if we ship them off to a non-participating country for "questioning" we can get around it.
     
  7. tenor

    tenor
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    This brings up a question I've had since the beginning of the "War on Terror," What is the difference between a "prisoner of war" and an "enemy combatant?"

    also, there is the problem of defining what "torture" is and is not. There is probably a great range for this definition on this board. We need to define what we mean officially.

    Also, when did supporting or doing what you personally think is right a legislator becomea "mutiny" or a "revolt?" Is not the legislature to be independent of the executive branch?

    Just a thought.

    Tim
     
  8. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Is this "source" reliable or is it a National Enquirer kind of thing?
     
  9. Brother James

    Brother James
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    0
    I saw John Mcain interviewed about it at lunch today on the noon news on CBS. The article above is front the UK. I'd say the story is reliable.
     
  10. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    SOURCE Yahoo news
     
  11. SeekingTruth

    SeekingTruth
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    BJ--another faithful Bush Basher. The old canard that Bush lied about the Iraq war really isn't true. He, along with most of Congress, believed the intelligence reports about Iraq, and acted accordingly. Those in Congress who say he lied are tarring themselves with the same brush.

    I will repeat my earlier question. Did you have prayer meeting before you posted your baseless claim? To make such a statement based on an assumption, which in turn was not based on hard fact, is pretty far fetched.
     
  12. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,927
    Likes Received:
    296
     
  13. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Torture is already illegal for all categories of prisoners. Other mistreatment is also illegal. All the misconduct we've seen graphically reported has resulted in investigations, changes, trials, and convictions under due process for those that committed the crimes. No new laws were required to effect that discipline. The system we have works. Those that violated the law - top to bottom - are being held accountablity for it. Others have taken note that there is accountability for both leaders and followers. The proposed law goes beyond what's required and risks giving more protection than is wise to certain categories of our enemy. It would limit our ability in apply legal but maximum interrogation techniques. It would afford the same status to terrorits that we do prisoners of war or, perhaps, even ordinary criminals. That's just not a good idea and not in the best interest of our nation's ability to fight wars! Certain enhancements - doctrine, organization, procedures, etc. - and effective training may be in order to help prevent the things that went wrong from happening again. The typical response to problems is to expect the government to make new laws. We have enough already!

    [ October 07, 2005, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Dragoon68 ]
     
  14. Brother James

    Brother James
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you my southern brother! [​IMG]
     
  15. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    3
    Sorry to disagree, but the President, VP Cheney and Rumsfield have all said that we are not abiding by existing international law (the Geneva Convention) in dealing with prisioners taken in this war because our opponents are terrorists and not soldiers. Since our government is refusing to abide by existing international law, maybe we do need American law to cover this area.

    Do you think a decent country let alone one that calls itself a "Christian nation" tortures its prisioners?
     
  16. SeekingTruth

    SeekingTruth
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    Posted by straightand narrow
    What evidence is there that this country has tortured prisoners? Except for the minor incidents in AbuGhraib (sp?) I haven't seen any. By the way, in case you have been on another planet, the ones who did mistreat prisoners are being punished. The prisoners at Gitmo are being fed at least as good as, and probably better, than the MREs our troops eat. There are no beatings, beheadings, etc.

    What torture has taken place? As Dragoon68 has said, there are enough laws on the books and enough executive orders in place to more than adequately protect prisoners, whether they are covered by the Geneva convention or not. IMHO, McCain is so bitter over losing the nomination to Bush that he is using this as another attempt to embarass Bush.

    Still no proof of torture, unless one counts the assumption of Brother James as proof.
     
  17. Grimlock Prime

    Grimlock Prime
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good for the President. The last thing we want to hand the terrorists is a handbook of our limitations. If we're going to succeed against these fascist bullies we need to make them so afraid of hurting us that they wet themselves when we glare their way.

    Now we need to take the gloves off when it comes to dealing with the Fascist Left in our own nation.
     
  18. kiwimac

    kiwimac
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps you could point me to the passage in the Bible where Jesus says he is OK with torture?

    Kiwimac
     
  19. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    You left out one important leader of the "fascist movement" in this country. One Michael Ledeen, neocon hero extraodinaire, the "go to guy" that the neocons turn to for inspiration and propaganda to get people that like to throw the term fascist around but otherwise do not know about or are unable to recognize the system of economic fascism in their own country to back them. As Hitler was once claimed to have said...
    The American Conservative

    Fascists do seem to be fond of the idea of a "New Order". Benito Mussolini, Gabriele D’Annunzio, Adolf Hitler, Michael Ledeen and George H. W. Bush have all used the term at one time or another.

    Good thing we all know that there is no such thing as a New World Order though. Or we might be compelled to willing give up our individual rights for the security of a world government. :eek:
     
  20. hillclimber

    hillclimber
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    terrible legislation.
     

Share This Page

Loading...