But he smokes

I'm surprised to see so many are okay with a pastor who smokes.

I think maybe more info should be given - there is a big difference between smoking the occasional pipe or cigar, and being addicted to smoking cigarettes so that one smokes a pack a day or more. I think the latter could be argued as a defect in character that might fall under those qualifications in Timothy and Titus for elders and deacons.

It is also setting a bad example for young people - would you want your child's SS teacher to be a smoker and the kids know it?

 

You know Marcia this post shows how obviously un-cool you are. All the cool pastors are doing it. I find they also hang out in bars and quote the verse that says the pharisees criticized Jesus for being a drunkard. You need to be a cooler christian. And say words like Wicked! Totally! etc....

 

You're so right on, dude. :smilewinkgrin:

I've often said that if I went back to being an astrologer, I'd probably be popular among some of the "cool" Christians. I was so counter-culture then, I'd be really cool.

 

Totally! Astrology for Christ....groovey! Wiccans for Jesus....totally cool. Here let me light your ciggarette.

 

:laugh:

You're not too far off. They had eneagrams at a pastors' conference that was heavily emergent, though I don't think it was exclusively emergent.

An enneagram is a chart with 9 numbers. You are one of the numbers and are supposed to "balance" yourself with the number opposite. This comes from Anthroposophy and Gurdjieff, who once was a Theosophist, and from his follower, Ouspensky. It's an esoteric occult technique.

See, I know all this cool stuff!

 

Quote: I'm surprised to see so many are okay with a pastor who smokes.
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I don't think anyone actually advocated this. I certainly don't. I don't advocate smoking at all. We just have to read the health warning.

What I did say, is that we tend to major on minors and miss the boat.
I can see all kinds of "no no's" as I walkabout. If I raised those things as issues, not a soul would give me the time of day. There is no purpose in calling a hooker a hooker. She already knows that. If I treat her as another human being, I just might be able to witness to her as well.

I think of the people in the South who work or own the tobacco fields -their livlihood. Do they preach no smoking once they cash their pay cheque or refuse payment because it is tobacco? I doubt it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Wow. You do what would you do if you went to a pastors conference that had the Earth, water, air, fire, and wood symbols laid out at five points? I know what I would do. Run. I'm personally against pastor smoking if you couldn't tell.

 

You make a good point. The south has for centuries practice convientient Christianity. If it's economically feasable (such as slavery - how many of you heard these words from Southern Christians? - africans were better off in America than in Africa, Slavery is not condemned in the bible, Slaves are to obey their master etc..) even if its immoral is acceptable. They still have secret stills all over the south as well. And as immoral as some of these southerners are they call all tell you about Jesus and how they are saved. Witnessing doesn't seem to do so well for some of these. I lived in the South for 5 years and had a wake up call. BTW I blame the South for the present condition of the republican party but this may all be off thread. sorry. I'm ranting.

 

You certainly are. I've lived in the south all my life and have never believed slavery was acceptable and have yet to see a still.

Typical stereotyping of southerners. We also live in log shacks and go barefoot and smoke corncob pipes. Oops, they smoke! Heretics!

 

Well, until Kennedy, a Catholic, ran for office the South was Democratic. Ten million Sothern Baptists refused to vote for a Catholic, and refused to vote Republican. Front page news at the time.

We all have our hang ups, North and South.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Heretics! Yes. Church of God territory and yes I heard every one of the things I wrote by some of these people. Though none of them lived in log cabins, and none of them got bubblin crude shooting for food. They like their nascar, beer, ribs, and still lament the war between the states. (eastern TN on the NC boarder.)

 

I'd like to see where smoking is a sin.

Really, I'd like to see it. I can't see it.

This is a societal thing. If we want to disqualify someone for smoking because it "taints their witness" than we better examine where our leaders go for lunch, whether or not they work out regularly, if they have an credit cards, if they've actually helped shelter a homeless person, etc. etc. ad infinitum. Its easy to sit around and say "well that is clearly sin" and "that isn't" while ignoring true biblical definitions of sin.

A sidenote: Now I'm pretty involved in the emerging conversation and have noticed they've become a whipping boy for a lot of people. I know a lot of friends in the movement and can't think of one of them who smokes regularly. Really we can have a much more mature conversation than maligning one group quickly.

I would just like to see where this is "sin" in Scripture.

 

You're a Brit! and a Canadian displaced Brit at that! You know about your neighbors to the south though. You're right about that too. Northern Christians have their issues too. I just get along better with them is all. Part of my issues with the South is that when I left the Air Force after spending 6 years in the Uk and Germany and living most of my life before that in Africa I really had idealistic views of the american south and had my eyes opened. By the time I moved up north I had been in the US long enough to have gotten used to my disappointment. I often compare southerners to Japanese. Yes the south is hospitable and all smiles but they're thinking dark thoughts. My issues not yours. again sorry. Strangley enough I attend a southern baptist church. Go figure and my wife's from Virginia! Oh well....

 

I'm having fun with the conversation but a serious discussion of smoking would be more like this. Smoking wasn't developed or popularized in the middle eastern regions and so it just never came up. Just like Cars. The bible doesn't mention Cars either. The thing is when you read the bible you have to ask yourself what principle can I apply to this situation. The bible doesn't address pornography specifically either or perverse internet chatrooms but no one here is going to say thats ok either. The bible does talk about addictive behaviors of which smoking is one. The bible preaches moderation, treating your body as a temple, etc...

 

If you really think this I would hope you are not a pastor at a church. Sounds like you may have a chip on your shoulder that has been knocked off a few time while you were in the south. I may be wrong. Even if I am you are in my prayers.

 

I like the light nature of the convo and hope it continues.

Along those lines which you just brought up, should eating fast food then become an issue? Fast food joints are horrible for your body (i.e Fast Food Nation)

editted to add: it is notable that many churches are now doing extensive background checks to including examining ones credit profile. Seems prudent. Maybe that adds to the convo, I don't know?

 

No I'm not a pastor. And I was disallusioned in the South. and Yes, strangely, fighting termonology is common in the south as well. Everybody wants to fight. (thats actually not true but a lot of people I encountered settled disputes that way.)

 

Yes it is prudent. Brave new world huh.

 

To my brothers and sisters in Christ who are southern I apologize to you. I do have a chip on my shoulder about the south because of the things I encountered while I was there. There are many lovely people there who love God but I was in a very bad place there on the boarder of TN and NC Just North of Chatanooga. These are primarily the people of which I speak but even there were people of quality. I was being humerous but in a way not really so forgive me. I'm not speaking to you just my experiences there that I Unfortuanately lumped everyone in.

 

Very interesting stuff. Smoking would probably not be encouraged, but I would never classify it as sin. As for the South, it is the Bible Belt. I do appreciate the fact that most in the South respect the Christian faith.