But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by King James Bond, Aug 6, 2005.

  1. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    It is the Spirit who gives life ; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

    "But there are some of you who do not believe " For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

    The words of the spirit and life were spoken to people.....

    Some of them could not understand because they were not granted the ears to hear. They were blind, deaf, and dead to things of the spirit.

    And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

    "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

    "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

    And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."

    So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

    I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

    I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

    "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

    Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.

    "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

    "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

    and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

    "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

    "I and the Father are one."

    The Father has given the sheep to His Son.

    The sheep will hear His voice and come to Him.

    The goats will not come because they have not been granted the ability to come.

    The sheep have been saved by grace from eternity past.

    It is the Fathers plan that the sheep will come to His Son, and NOTHING can snatch them from Him.

    " The disciples came to him and asked, 'Why do you speak to the people in parables?'

    He replied, 'The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

    Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

    This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

    In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.

    Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them."


    "What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."

    The hard truth! Regards and God bless you all! [​IMG] KJB
     
  2. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
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    King James Bond, people are confusing you with King James, another member. If you get odd replies, you'll understand why.
     
  3. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    dianetavegia,

    Ok thanks! I thought that might have been the case.

    To be honest, I am not even sure if I am keeping up with responses to me.

    I have been trying to find and read all posts that may have been directed to me so I could try and respond.......

    Maybe its because no one is responding! LOL :(

    To everybody out there I am sorry if I missed responses and was not trying to be rude.

    I was thinking of changing my name to protect the innocent.....although I know I am not innocent! ;)

    I might change my nic here in a little while.

    God bless you dianetavegia!

    Regards, KJB [​IMG]
     
  4. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman
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    Acts 7:

    51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!


    How can they resist the Holy Spirit if He was not talking to them.

    Another Hard fact!

    A teaching of J. Christ. [​IMG]
     
  5. KenH

    KenH
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    Fallen man has been resisting the Holy Spirit since the fall in the Garden of Eden.
     
  6. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    Timtoolman,

    Good point you bring up!

    The text is proclaiming the natural bent will of Israel.

    Even if Israel is God's chosen nation, it by no means insinuates that they were a good people that chose Him and were in perfect obedience.

    They were rebels, stiffnecked, stubborn, vile, full of injustice, always turning away, ready and willing to kill every man ever sent to them by God! (prophets)

    Even though they thought they were good, special, and wonderful people, they were still bound in a sin nature that was inherited.

    It does not mean that the Holy Spirit is forever irresitable by sinners. All are sinners.

    It shows that unless they are "circumcised in heart and ears" they always resist!

    It takes nothing less than the work of Mighty God on the inner person to perform such circumcision of the human heart and human ears.

    It is God that sets apart His own by granting them eyes to see, ears to hear Him...and a new heart.

    For as the saying goes for all men. The heart is evil.

    The heart of the problem......is the problem of the heart!

    I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

    John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. '

    "If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"


    I have to agree with KenH there. Mankind by nature is a rotten rebel!

    God bless you! [​IMG] KJB
     
  7. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman
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    So we are in agreement that the HS can be resisted and is not irrestiable? I was talking to calvinist who believe that God does not call all. It appears that you and Ken and I agree then.
     
  8. whatever

    whatever
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    Much of the Spirit's activity can be resisted. His work of grace in regenerating the lost cannot be resisted.
     
  9. dianetavegia

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    The Holy Spirit can not only be resisted but lied to! Scripture is quite clear on that.

    Acts 7:51 "You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.


    The Holy Spirit can be spoken against.


    Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.


    Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." 5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. 7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, "Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?" She said, "Yes, for so much." 9 Then Peter said to her, "How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.
     
  10. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    Timtoolman,

    Yes I would agree with you that all people by first birth, or first nature resist God.......

    But His effectual grace, if it is in His will, is irresistable.

    I mean that even though people have a natural will to resist the good and true things of God......God is able to overcome the resistance if He wills to do so.

    He does not have to do so. He may also cause stubborness and hardness and no one can resist.

    The main point is that He is sovereign over all things....including people.

    dianetavegia,

    Great points you bring up there!

    I was not even thinking about Ananias and Sapphira.

    It sure seems that lying to God could bring instant death upon people if God is willing to kill them.

    It sure seems that a man and his wife could not resist being killed by the Holy Spirit.

    I would say that even instant death is less to fear than that of standing before our Maker knowing we have lied about anything.

    I know I need forgiveness in many areas for sure.

    I want no wages...only mercy!

    God bless you all. Regards, KJB [​IMG]
     
  11. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman
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    I agree as most do that God is sovereign. ??The issue with me and calvinist is I do not tell God how he is to be sovereign. That is up too Him and I just say amen!
     
  12. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    Timtoolman,

    You posted;

    I agree as most do that God is sovereign. ??

    I agree that God is sovereign also!

    But even if I did not agree....even if every creature on earth did not agree....He is sovereign because He is!

    The issue with me and calvinist is I do not tell God how he is to be sovereign. That is up too Him and I just say amen!

    What in blazes is the point in that little ditty datty? LOL

    Like Calvinists direct God or something? :confused:

    God has revealed certain things to us lame brained people.

    Not ALL things mind you!

    There are many things that belong to Him and Him alone!

    Like why He chooses to save Fred Jones and not Fred Smith.

    That is His secret will and His perogative.

    Why? Because He is sovereign!

    God does as He pleases, only as He pleases, always as He pleases. None can thwart Him, none can hinder Him.

    "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" (Isa. 46:10)

    He is not required to please people or save them from or for anything.

    He is only obligated to the creature if He has by His own will obligated Himself!

    "He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35)

    He does all things according to His own will in the army of heaven (meaning He controls all spiritual agents)

    AND

    among all the inhabitants of the earth (meaning He has full control over piddly little pip squeeks like you and I)

    Sovereignty means that God is in fact on the throne of the universe directing all things.

    working ALL things "after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11).

    So why would you say Calvinists tell God how to be sovereign?

    Regards, KJB God bless [​IMG]
     
  13. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman
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    I say that because alot of them do, maybe not you but most do. The arguement breaks down alot of times to " well if God does that or allows that then He is not soveriegn" AS in allowing man to choose, or resist the HS" etc. That is not a biblical arguement it is a "how I think God should act" arguement.

    Of course I don't believe calvinist direct God actually. They don't direct God at all, neither does a person who believes in free will. God is just greater. Great enough that we have free wil and He still is in total control. How do I explain it? I can't it most likely is something I can not understand. I think that is the issue in Romans when the question is not answered but to say who are thou man to question God. It is obvious that both exsist so I can only believe it.
     
  14. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    Timtoolman,

    Ok....thanks for taking the time to give me an explanation.

    You say you have free-will.....many people say they have it.

    And there are other people that would say you do not have free-will.....there are many on both sides.

    Now the truth of the matter is both sides can't be correct.

    Which side is correct?

    Is there a way we can know?

    Let us both work together to find evidence one way or the other.

    Let us set out to seek and find the truth!

    Show me the evidence to support what you claim.

    If a man simply claims to have free-will......
    I would hope he has some sort of evidence to support his claim.

    If there exists no evidence to support such a deeply held conviction....then why be convicted?

    How about if I show Scripture that supports that the will of men is directed by Someone else?

    Would you believe Scripture?

    Would Scripture be convincing enough to give conviction?

    The following is written to Christians and is reminding them to be persistent in obedience while maintaining a healthy aspect of respect for God in hopes they do not offend;

    for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    The next verse describes how people are "born again";

    who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

    This shows how God can direct even the heart of a king;

    The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

    I would say that if God could direct a kings heart.......He most certainly can direct the hearts of common peasants such as you and I.

    For as once the human heart was like an enemy...God changes it as He wills.

    Is any of that good enough yet? I have more if you would like some.

    What do you say about God turning hearts? Is He free to do so?

    What about His giving new life to people according to His will? May He?

    I will look forward to a nice civil discussion with you about such things!

    God bless you! [​IMG] KJB
     
  15. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman
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    One of my favorites KJB is when God told Moses to speak to the Rock yet MOses in anger struck it. What was God's will. Unless He was joking or has two wills then, IT was to speak to the rock. Now Moses struck the rock, not God's will as told to him verbaly! But it is a great picture of how man has free will but God's will is always done. See that is what I say. My God is great enough that He can and does allow man free will BUT HIS WILL IS ALWAYS DONE. What was God's will? That water would flow from the rock....and did it despite a disobeying man? Yep

    If I can show you numerous other scriptures where God has given man free choice especially when it comes to salvation would you change your mind. I think not.

    but go ahead and start where you want too. I will go on the offensive.
     
  16. webdog

    webdog
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    KJB, for readability, do you think you can post without using double spaces? I don't know about anyone else, but I have a hard time reading your posts (my eyes start to cross after about 10 lines :D )
     
  17. Jarthur001

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    web...all you need is 2 liner glasses. if you find some...pick me up some too. i like mine in black please
     
  18. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    webdog,

    Yes I can do that. Sorry bout that.

    Timtoolman,

    You posted;
    One of my favorites KJB is when God told Moses to speak to the Rock yet MOses in anger struck it. What was God's will. Unless He was joking or has two wills then, IT was to speak to the rock. Now Moses struck the rock, not God's will as told to him verbaly! But it is a great picture of how man has free will but God's will is always done. See that is what I say. My God is great enough that He can and does allow man free will BUT HIS WILL IS ALWAYS DONE. What was God's will? That water would flow from the rock....and did it despite a disobeying man? Yep

    If I can show you numerous other scriptures where God has given man free choice especially when it comes to salvation would you change your mind. I think not.

    but go ahead and start where you want too. I will go on the offensive.

    There is a difference in God's prescribed will and decreed will is what I would suppose. I would like you to show me where God has given men free-choice. Please do.

    You may be able to show me where there have been options before men. Many options or few options. You may be able to show me where choices are made by men. But you cant show me they are free and have not been influenced.

    By the way I don't want you to be on the offensive. I want you and I both to be UNITED together in truth!

    Since you claim to have free-choice and I do not......it would be best if you would freely choose to believe the way I do and then we will both be united!

    God bless timtoolman! [​IMG] KJB
     
  19. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman
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    By the way I don't want you to be on the offensive. I want you and I both to be UNITED together in truth!

    Since you claim to have free-choice and I do not......it would be best if you would freely choose to believe the way I do and then we will both be united!


    LOL I like that, thats good. I would think it best that you ask God why He has not mede me to believe like you do so that we can be united.


    The fact that Jesus said and preached to all that you must believe and held that invitation out to all is enought for me. I can go through the life of Christ and look up all the times He said or preached or asked others to believe. And not all did.

    I will answer this more later. Tired from last post. Typing is a chore for me. Spelling too. grin
     
  20. dianetavegia

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    We could use the example of the Garden of Eden and Eve partaking and then sharing the fruit with Adam.

    Either Eve was tempted by Satan and freely disobeyed God or God MADE Eve sin and therefore forced sin nature upon all mankind PLUS chose whom to redeem from that FORCED sin nature and whom to condemn to hell for that FORCED sin nature. Top that off with God then sending His only Son to die a horrible death on the cross as a blood sacrifice of the Spotless, Sinless Lamb only for the few He selected to forgive for the sin nature He forced upon them in the first place.

    Calvinism makes NO sense to me. How anyone can embrace its teachings is outside my realm of understanding. It's a mystery alright! :rolleyes:
     

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