By faith alone or by faith and acting?

I've already posed this question on the thread, no one nibbled, I ask it again (and it IS on topic):

"What state was Abraham in prior to Gen 15:6?"

 

Look who's talking We all know we are not saved by faith alone. We are saved by Grace through faith.

Well "Faith" is a verb. That in it's self describes an action.

No submission, no grace. No Faith, No Grace. How did you come by grace didn't you have any faiith?

Oh no did you discover a contradiction in scripture?
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Actually No. What he meant was that if you have no works your faith has gone stale.
By the way your not teaching that we can loose our Salvation if we have no works are you?

I believe there for I'm saved and I do not have to do anything else to maintain my Salvation. I have been sealed and Salvation for works is rediculous.

Being saved by grace through faith is not saved by faith alone. In fact there are many things necessary for Salvation. Conviction in my opinion is with out doubt the most important. Because with out conviction You have no repentence. Yet another requirement for Salvation.

We must believe, repent, and confess our sins. We must place our faith or trust in Christ. and most of all we must submit to His righteousness. Romans 10:1-4

I answered this in my last answer.
MB

 

Arkansas!

Which was previously known as "The Garden of Eden".:saint:

John

 

Most winos in the gutter will tell you they have faith that Jesus is Lord, but they refuse to act on that faith.

John

 

My apologies to you Luke, I should refrain from these threads because I make a clear distinction between the eternal and the temporal in salvation, the majority, Cal & Arm, do not.

I do agree with your assessment in post #11:

"The Calvinist affirms the biblical truth that we are saved by grace through faith.

The Arminian purports that we are saved by grace through CHOICE.


HUGE difference."

 

Faith alone means no works for salvation. It doesn't mean that there is no grace.

 

No, they have mere mental assent, and Armini-ish and non-calvinist easy-believism teachings have helped facilitate this errant notion. "It's like sitting on that chair, you sit believing it will hold you, right? It's the same with Jesus, you simply make an act of faith in Him like sitting on a chair and then you're going to heaven!" That's a false Gospel.

 

You're welcome.


I agree with you're nothing, err, I meant your nothing. :laugh: J/K....

 

Do you know of any 'faith alone' passages other than this one?:

Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2:24

I think 'Sola Fide' has it's roots with Martin Luther and not the scriptures.

 

Faith w/o works is dead. No works=dead faith.

 

I only need one. God only has to say something once for it to be true.

The context of James is that of true faith. James is not contradicting Paul in saying that works plus faith save. Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly, very, very clearly teach that salvation is not of works. James is teaching what true faith is like. It works.

Correct:thumbs::thumbs:

Great analogy of a fire. If one says they believe they are in danger of a fire, but don't move, don't really believe they are in danger of a fire. A true believer of the danger of a fire will get up and head for an exit. The same is true of believers. If one says that he believes, but doesn't act like it, he really isn't a believer. Paul says right after that salvation is not of works says that we are created for good works. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

A mark of a believers is good works.

 

Paul's contrast of faith vs works is in view of the intent to be justified by the works of the law.

James's connection of faith to works is in view of the law written on the heart from which both should come naturally.

17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith. Jas 2

And Paul did mention concerning both the connection and the contrast of the two:

......the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:14

......by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 2:16

 

NO NO NO NO NO! Paul says the exact opposite. Not of works.

James teaches to show faith by works. True faith will have works.

Try reading Galations 2:16 once more. This time, read what you wrote...then read the entire verse.
by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

You misunderstood. Paul's contrast of faith vs works is to show that justification is NOT through the [intentional] works of the law. It never was.

Look at what you're saying. Faith doesn't produce works anymore than works produce faith, the two arise from the same source, the supernatually regenerated heart. Good works and faith come from within, by nature of the heavenly birth.

It's regeneration first, then good works and faith.

 

Think where cals/Arms disagree on faith is right at the intial aspect of its very BASIS...

Do we possess inherit faith within ourselves to believe in jesus, or is it something that God provides for us to have?

 

I thought you said it was through works.

That's a little different from what I read before. I'm not going to engage in this thread the regeneration before faith issue.

 

Good works are a byproduct of the sinner become changed by God into a saint!

the Lord redeems us, then when we walk in the person/power of the HS are the good works done, to the glory of God!

As John calvin agreed with this , as "we are saved by faith alone, but the type of faith that really saves is not alone!"

saved by grace, than doing good works unto God!

 

Interestingly enough, you posted this and several of those that agree with you immediately jumped on the band wagon in saying that these statements somehow say works are required for salvation.

But I read them, and I don't see that at all. I see people saying exactly what Aaron analogized: Where there's fire, there's smoke. Where there's no smoke, there's no fire.

It appears you've created a position regarding non-cals that doesn't exist. Well, except maybe for CrabtownBoy; he and I disagree on quite a few things, but mostly politics.

But I'll be happy to let the others speak for themselves to clarify their positions.

 

Faith is a judgment.

Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Faith is not irresistibly caused, it is a judgment and a decision or choice. For example, suppose three teenage boys all dressed like "gangta's" carrying skateboards told you they just saw a UFO land in the parking lot behind City Hall. Would you beliieve them? I wouldn't. Why? Besides the fact that this is a fantastic story and difficult to believe, teenage boys, especially skateboarder types are generally viewed as very immature, irresponsible, and mischievous. They are most likely just yanking your chain to have a little fun.

But what if a polieceman, your pastor, and your mother and father approached you and told you they just saw a UFO land in the parking lot behind City Hall, would you believe them? I think I would, or at the very least I would believe they had seen SOME object that appeared to be a UFO land behind City Hall. They may be mistaken, but they are not lying. As wild as this story is, I think most folks would believe witnesses like this. And I think I would believe enough to run down and see if I could see this object myself.

So, faith is not irresistibly caused, but there are other factors that determine whether one believes another's story or testimony. If the witness is a mature and credible person, there is far more chance you will believe their story. This shows faith is a judgment and a choice.

When I was a boy I read the Bible. There were many strange stories that seemed difficult to believe, like Moses parting the Red Sea, or his rod turning into a serpent, or Jonah being swallowed by whale, etc...

But when it came to the heart, the Bible was absolutely accurate. The Bible told me not what I wanted to hear about myself, but what I knew to be true. It had a ring of truth I could not deny. So, as fantastic as these stories seemed to be, I believed the Bible and still do. I could look around and see from all creation that there was a God, and the God of the Bible sounded right to me. So, I was convinced and persuaded by the scriptures, I made the choice to believe it, just as I would choose to believe my pastor and my mother and father if they told me a story, even if it was fantastic.

 

What about us regular Christians that are neither Calvinist nor Arminian?

I believe Cals and Arminians BOTH have it wrong. One side says salvation as a result of faith is irresistible, and the other says it's conditional.

John