By Grace

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Bob Krajcik, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. Bob Krajcik

    Bob Krajcik
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    Romans 5:6 (KJV) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Romans 5:8 (KJV) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Colossians 1:20 (KJV) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
    21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
    22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

    Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    John 6:37 (KJV) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    John 6:39 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    John 10:11 (KJV) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    John 10:15 (KJV) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    Hebrews 9:22 (KJV) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Ephesians 4:32 (KJV) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

    Luke 6:35 (KJV) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

    Would you be saved? Christ must have died for you, and those Christ died for are given new life by the Holy Spirit. Ye must be born again. The Father choose before the foundation of the world, certain and particular ones, and those Christ died for.

    John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 14:6 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jude 1:3 (KJV) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

    How precious did that grace appear, the hour I first believed.

    Isn’t the love of Jesus something wonderful?
     
  2. Bob Krajcik

    Bob Krajcik
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    Just reading the Scripture, very little explanation, it seems so clear. People being as they are as unsaved men (none righteous, none that understandeth, none that seeketh after God, all gone out of the way, unprofitable, none that doeth good, no, not one, their throat is an open sepulchre, they have used deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips, mouth is full of cursing and bitterness, feet are swift to shed blood, destruction and misery are in their ways, the way of peace have they not known, no fear of God before their eyes, when they see Jesus there is no beauty that we should desire Him, He is despised and rejected of men - Isa 53:2-3; Rom 3:10-18 – and yet men imagine they will come to Christ on their own, without their receiving any more attention from God than the one that will never be saved – 1Cor 4:7) makes the wondrous Grace all the more amazing. Ps 116:12,13

    I was wondrously and gloriously saved in January 1979, finding myself washed in the Precious Blood of the Lamb. My life is not now what it was, and is not yet what it shall be, but I know when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His Coming, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

    How precious did that Grace appear, the hour I first believed.

    Isn’t Grace something wonderful?
     
  3. whetstone

    whetstone
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  4. David Michael Harris

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    Amen and Amen

    David
     
  5. Wes Outwest

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    Ya know Bob Krajcik,
    I think you miss a very important fact.

    EVERYTHING that happens in the world today and for the past 4000-6000 years, has been done while God's grace prevails for all mankind.

    It is while God is behaving graciously toward mankind that man gets the opportunity to hear the word, and to come to faith in God, and even to reject God and still live the rest of the Natural human life.

    All of the scriptures you posted get a heartfelt AMEN, but if you believe we are saved by grace, then I must say sincerely you are mistaken. All mankind is under God's grace, but not all of mankind are saved by grace! Indeed no one is saved BY GRACE, meaning of course that Grace is the Savior of man.

    Jesus is God's gracious gift to mankind, but Jesus is not grace, He atoned for sin while God's grace is present. His gracious gift to man is everlasting life for those who believe in Him while God's grace is present.

    I think you need to step back and see what Grace truly is! AND what it is not!
     
  6. David Michael Harris

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    God rides forth conquering in the chariot of His Gospel. . . He conquers the pride of the heart, and makes the will which stood out as a Fort Royal against Him, to yield and stoop to His grace; He makes the stony heart bleed.

    Irresistible Grace

    Praise God for His saving grace.

    David
    ( Chosen before the foundation of the world )
    ( Elect of God )
    ( My life is hidden with Christ in God )
     
  7. Wes Outwest

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    Prove that Grace is what Saves.

    Prove that grace is irresistible?

    Why is grace resistible for some and not others?
     
  8. David Michael Harris

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    I am living proof. Are not you?
    Ask God, regarding your last question.

    David
     
  9. Scott J

    Scott J
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    God saves by His grace.

    God predestined and justified those He called... not maybe... not if they happened to choose well... but according to God's divine plan He decreed it.

    It is in the nature of Christ's sheep to hear his voice and follow.

    Some are quickened by the Spirit while others continue in their own self-centered will.
     
  10. David Michael Harris

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    This is always difficult to explain.

    Its like God knew who would accept His Grace and who would despise it. This knowing thing, because He dwells outside of time, but its more than that.

    Gods Grace is the most precious thing you can imagine, Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine, God alone is Judge as to His will in things.

    When Christ returns, people are going to want rocks and mountains to fall in on them to hide themselves from God, WHY, because He is Beautiful and Lovely and Great beyond imagination.

    O Lord give me the words to express your Truth.

    Amen

    David
     
  11. David Michael Harris

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    Those who come to God must believe that He exists, and that He is the rewarder of those that seek Him.

    Wes if you Believe God exists, ask Him, He will answer you.

    David
     
  12. Wes Outwest

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    David,
    I have asked God that very thing and here's what he revealed through his word to me.

    God's word speaking:
    "My grace is present for all mankind"

    "man could not comply with every jot and tittle of the law, so "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"

    "I declared that sin must have a penalty of death"

    "I destroyed Mankind once in a flood and that grieved me so much that I promised that I would never do that again and sealed my promise with a rainbow"

    "Yes, I did find one man whom I favored because of his FAITH in me, and told him to build an ARK, He was the slowest carpenter I've ever seen, but he faithfully did as I asked him to inspite of all the ridicule from his fellow man. And in my grace all during the hundred or so years that Noah was building the ARK, I waited for others to see Noah's faith and repent from their sins, but alas they did not. And yes, I did save Noah along with his faithful and dutiful wife, their three sons and their wives, along with a male and female of every species of animal...Oh yes, before you ask, and the mosquito, and cockroach!"

    "Then there was that episode with Sodom and Gomorrah where Abraham deliberately attempted to talk me out of cleaning house with them. Abraham lost the argument, but I did save ol' Lot and his two, at that time obedient, daughters, its just too bad that his wife disobeyed my orders and had to see what what happening to her home."

    "I love all mankind so very much, why can't they see that and obey me?"

    Well I had considered an alternative plan since I knew that man would sin and I had a book prepared before I created the heavens and the earth. I called it "The Book of Life", pretty novel don't you think? I made it so that names could be written in and blotted from, because the way I made man, with most of the same abilities, though not the power, that I myself have. And Knowing the evil one as I do, I knew he would be able to deceive many men, even some of those who claim faith in me."

    "Even so, man remained prone to sinning, and the penalty for sinning is death. That gave me no pleasure because I knew that no man would be around when I want to hear their praises and accept from them their offerings to me. And I do so love them all."

    "I told my prophets to tell the people that I would send to them a Messiah. It's really funny how they were thinking that messiah meant "the undefeatable Conquering Hero". So when they least expected it, I sent my only begotten son to them in the form of a human male baby child. Shoot, they didn't even have a room for him in their inn. So he was born in a dirty ol' manger where they feed their animals, and of course where their animals poop too! Imagine the holy child of the living God born in squaller. But, of course I had my prophets mention something about that long before it happened."

    "Well when my amazing kid got old enough he went into the desert to be tried, and true to his form the evil one did what He could, but my son did not fall for his tricks. So when he returned He needed to get wet and I showed him another of my elect, ol' John the baptiser. Sell John was reluctant to baptise God the son, but was persuaded to do so. I blew the minds of all those who were watching by presenting myself in all three of my persons, Voice from heaven, Spirit like a dove, and of course me in the form of a human. And men have been arguing about that for two thousand years."

    "Let me tell you, my son became very popular with the general population where he was, and that made those pious, and pompous religious leaders, the priests very angry, but they couldn't do anything to him until I let them." I gave my boy 12 men out of the general population so that he could teach them his ways, which are my ways. And I gotta tell you he did a great job on them. I am so pleased with him."

    "The really sad part of the story is that the people whom I set aside for myself, rejected my son who was by birth one of them. That made me consider that there are other peoples who would accept him readily."

    "At the appointed time, I gave my son over to the religious leaders knowing full well what they would do to Him. But he knew that it had to happen even though he pleaded with me to make it not happen. Sure enough those same Sadducees and Pharisees, held a mock trial, a real mockery of justice, even taking him before the gentile leaders, to ridicule him. Well that part of the story ends on a Cross on a hill just outside my beloved City Jerusalem. It's really amazing how much my son withstood before he died, and ya know, He asked me to forgive them for doing it because they did not know what they were doing....But we did!"

    "We had arranged it before I made the heavens and the earth. And my boy Jesus was happy to be chosen for the task, because he knew that the result would be that man could then have everlasting life through simple faith in Him. And that in dying to atone for sin, he would defeat the snares of the evil one. That through believing man could escape the penalty the evil one wants carried out. That pleased him much, and yes it pleases me to be gracious toward man so that man can hear the story and believe in my son and have life, just as it was foretold."

    God tells me that all the work for man's salvation is completed, and all that remains is for man to decide whether or not to believe. That He, God, gives it unto man to make the choice for his own destiny. But he reminds us that He alone has laid before us life and death, then told us to choose life.
     
  13. Wes Outwest

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    Oh, one more thing that He told me, "That Calvin fellow must think that most men just fell off the turnip wagon, to fall for his "doctrines of Grace", the 5 point doctrine based on his interpretation of My Holy Word". That is not my plan of salvation for man at all!
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    It is extremely foolish to pretend to speak for God. Let's avoid that type of argument in here. Let's rise above that and talk about the things God has said.
     
  15. Wes Outwest

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    If you will notice Larry, I was not speaking for God I was paraphrasing stories and events in the bible. There is no difference in that than there is in Interpreting passages of the bible.

    There are literally libraries full of books where the authors do the same thing I did on this bbs.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    You speak of God revealing things to you from his word, and then say things that aren't in his word. Use his word to make your points. Don't paraphrase stuff and pretend that God said it. That is inappropriate.
     
  17. David Michael Harris

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    This are the thoughts you had before I replied to your questions, you have not prayed and received an answer since then. [​IMG]

    I will try to go through what you say, a bit.

    Gods grace present for all mankind, yes he causes the sun to rise and the rain to rain on the wicked and the good alike.

    Thats not the Grace I am talking about.

    All fall short of the Glory of God. We agree [​IMG]

    I declared that sin must have a penalty of death

    yes, "choose this day Life or death"


    I destroyed Mankind once in a flood and that grieved me so much that I promised that I would never do that again and sealed my promise with a rainbow

    Is'nt it funny how he did not destroy Noah, yet all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Noah must have received a different type of Grace. Herein lies the answer to your questions.

    David
     
  18. Wes Outwest

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    There is only one God, how many graces do you think he has?

    Look at your self, how man graces do you have?
     
  19. Wes Outwest

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    Funny? If he had you wouldn't be here on this BBS if hadn't.

    Did you notice the reason God did not destroy Noah? Noah had faith in God, was a righteous man among a world of sinners. Different type of Grace? How many graces are there?
     
  20. 4His_glory

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    Hey Wes,

    What part of "For by grace are ye saved.." do you not understand? To me that is pretty clear that salvation is by grace. It is pretty clear for all conservative orthodox theologians since the beginning of church history as well.

    Be careful in saying that salvation is anything but of grace, for then it is the result of somthing I do. I shudder at the thought of that.
     

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