What think ye brethren, I am new to this questioning of the KJV, so I don't know the ins and the outs as many of you do. Because I am new to the questioning of the KJV, I am therefore also new to the defense of the same Read the post below and give any comments you wish, makes no never mind to me Bro. Dallas Dear Brothers and Sisters, the foundational Creed for the Papal Church, and almost all other churches, including most Baptists, I am sorry to say, is the Nicene Creed. However, it went through several editions and changes before getting into its final form. This is the Creed based upon the corrupted Egyptian Bible known in the past as the Vaticus Text and later as the Westcott-Hort text. It is the foundational text for all the new Bibles. I have often said that their John 1:18, THE ONLY BEGOTEN GOD, rather than THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that degrades Jesus Christ and makes His Deity, THE ETERNAL WORD, into a deity that is not SELF-EXISTENT AND NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT. Here are further statements from later explinations to the Nicene Creed, taken from: THE ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY OF SOCRATES SCHOLASTICUS Revised, with Notes, by THE REV. A. C. ZENOS, D.D., PROFESSOR OF NEW TESTAMENT EXEGESIS IN THE THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY AT HARTFORD, CONN. You will find in these statements usages of such terms as co-inoriginate or co-unbegotten, denying the self-existence and self-sufficienty of the Deity of Jesus Christ. The only Being Who is self-existent is God the Father, they say and teach. These are in the Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers. CHAPTER 19?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /> OF THE CREED SENT BY THE EASTERN BISHOPS TO THOSE IN ITALY, CALLED THE LENGTHY CREED. Yet it must not be thought that the Son is coinoriginate, or co-unbegotten with the Father: for there is properly no father of the coinoriginate or co-unbegotten. But we know that the Father alone being inoriginate and incomprehensible, has ineffably and incomprehensibly to all begotten, and that the Son was begotten before the ages, but is not unbegotten like the Father, but has a beginning, viz. the Father who begat him, for “the head of Christ is God.” Now although according to the Scriptures we acknowledge three things or persons, viz. that of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, we do not on that account make three Gods: since we know that that there is but one God perfect in himself, unbegotten, inoriginate, and invisible, the God and Father of the only-begotten, who alone has existence from himself, and alone affords existence abundantly to all other things. But neither while we assert that (p.)129 there is one God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten, do we therefore deny that Christ is God before the ages, as the followers of Paul of Samosata do, who affirm that after his incarnation he was by exaltation deified, in that he was by nature a mere man. We know indeed that he was subject to his God and Father: nevertheless he was begotten of God, and is by nature true and perfect God, and was not afterwards made God out of man; but was for our sake made man out of God, and has never ceased to be God. Moreover we execrate and anathematize those who falsely style him the mere unsubstantial word of God, having existence only in another, either as the word to which utterance is given, or as the word conceived in the mind: and who pretend that before the ages he was neither the Christ, the Son of God, the Mediator, nor the Image of God; but that he became the Christ, and the Son of God, from the time he took our flesh from the virgin, about four hundred years ago. For they assert that Christ had the beginning of his kingdom from that time, and that it shall have an end after the consummation of all things and the judgment. Such persons as these are the followers of Marcellus and Photinus, the Ancyro-Galatians, who under pretext of establishing his sovereignty, like the Jews set aside the eternal existence and deity of Christ, and the perpetuity of his kingdom. But we know him to be not simply the word of God by utterance or mental conception, but God the living Word subsisting of himself; and Son of God and Christ; and who did, not by presence only, co-exist and was conversant with his Father before the ages, and ministered to him at the creation of all things, whether visible or invisible, but was the substantial Word of the Father, and God of God: for this is he to whom the Father said, “Let, us make man in our image, and according to our likeness:” who in his own person appeared to the fathers, gave the law, and spake by the prophets; and being at last made man, he manifested his Father to all men, and reigns to endless ages. Christ has not attained any new dignity; but we believe that he was perfect from the beginning, and like his Father in all things; and those who say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are the same person, impiously supposing the three names to refer to one and the same thing and person, we deservedly expel from the church because by the incarnation they render the Father, who is incomprehensible and insusceptible of suffering, subject to comprehension and suffering. Such are those denominated Patropassians among the Romans, and by us Sabellians. For we know that the Father (p.130) who sent, remained in the proper nature of his own immutable deity; but that Christ who was sent, has fulfilled the economy of the incarnation. In like manner those who irreverently affirm that Christ was begotten not by the will and pleasure of his Father; thus attributing to God an involuntary necessity not springing from choice, as if he begat the Son by constraint, we consider most impious and strangers to the truth because they have dared to determine such things respecting him as are inconsistent with our common notions of God, and are contrary indeed to the sense of the divinely-inspired Scripture. For knowing that God is self-dependent and Lord of himself we devoutly maintain that of his own volition and pleasure he begat the Son. And while we reverentially believe what is spoken Concerning him; “The Lord created me the beginning of his ways on account of his works”: yet we do not suppose that he was made similarly to the creatures or works made by him. For it is impious and repugnant to the church’s faith to compare the Creator with the works created by him; or to imagine that he had the same manner of generation as things of a nature totally different from himself: for the sacred Scriptures teach us that the alone only-begotten Son was really and truly begotten. Nor when we say that the Son is of himself, and lives and subsists in like manner to the Father, do we therefore separate him from the Father, as if we supposed them dissociated by the intervention of space and distance in a material sense. For we believe that they are united without medium or interval, and that they are incapable of separation from each other: the whole Father embosoming the Son; and the whole Son attached to and eternally reposing in the Father’s bosom. Believing, therefore, in the altogether perfect and most holy Trinity, and asserting that the Father is God, and that the Son also is God, we do not acknowledge two Gods, but one only, on account of the majesty of the Deity, and the perfect blending and union of the kingdoms: the Father ruling over all things universally, and even over the Son himself; the Son being subject to the Father, but except him, ruling over all things which were made after him and by him; and by the Father’s will bestowing abundantly on the saints the grace of the Holy Spirit. For the Sacred Oracles inform us that in this consists the character of the sovereignty which Christ exercises. huh Your ignorant stupid Baptist Brother, uh, Dallas Can someone explain the above article to me?