By Who's Righteousness?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 12strings, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. 12strings

    12strings
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    By Who's righteousness are we saved?

    Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith. (Philippians 3:8-9)

    But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: (Romans 3:21-22)

    But what if I am a righteous person?

    What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
    None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands;no one seeks for God. (Romans 3:9-11)


    All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. (Isaiah 64:6)

    But surely someone who has a zeal for God and seeks to establish a righteous life will be pardoned on the basis of their own righteousness, right?

    Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. (Romans 10:1-3)

    (Side note: If a person could have a Zeal (passion) for God, and yet not be saved...how should we be warned that a person could have a zeal for church ministry and not be saved, or for social justice and not be saved, or for debating theology and not be saved! ...My zeal for anything, even "GOD" is not evidence of salvation unless that zeal accords with the truth of the knowledge of the gospel!)

    Praise God that we do not have to rely on our own righteousness, but rather... For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:21)
     
  2. Moriah

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    We are saved by Jesus’ righteousness. We are saved by faith in his blood.

    Paul is speaking of the works of the law, like being circumcised (5), and being of a Hebrew ethnicity (5), those are things of the law, which God nailed to the cross. Paul was also a Pharisee. Pharisees added to the law with their traditions of men. Traditions of men are laws added to God’s law, which then nullified God’s word.

    Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb. All people can now come to God through faith in Jesus’ blood. No one has to do any more sin offerings, and other works of the law, like circumcision, nor any of the various external ceremonial washings just to worship God.

    Paul is quoting from the Old Testament about how no one Is righteous AND NEVER SINS.
    As for Paul quoting King David where Paul quotes about no one seeking God? At that time, it is a sad state of affairs inside Israel. When the day arrived, no one searched for God. Later, they repented, and searched for God. During slavery in Egypt, the Jewish people asked God, if he had forgotten them. How could they do so, if THEY were not wondering where He had disappeared? In the New Testament, when Jesus arrived, people shouted: “Son of David, have mercy on me”. They were looking for the Messiah. In the New Testament a blind man was searching for the Son of God, the prophet’s had said would come.

    Paul is explaining how even though the Jews were God’s chosen people, THEY SINNED JUST LIKE OTHER NATIONS OF PEOPLE.

    The scripture about filthy rags is about the Jews, the Jews who were God’s people who had the works of the law, but still sinned, and THEIR righteous acts were like filthy rags. They did not even do righteous acts with a pure heart. That scripture is not about every person.

    We have to do what God says to do, and not do things of our own making.

    The Jews still wanted to do the works of the law and not rely on the blood of Jesus.

    The Bible tells us how to know if we are saved.

    We must get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. Nowhere do the scriptures say we do not have to stop sinning.
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    regardless whether jews/gentiles, all sinners, saved by same God thru the messiah!

    And once saved, we will strive to live for the Lord, and will keep on spiritually growing, but NEVER reach that sinless perfection state some here said to have already attained!
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    The Elect are saved because of Christ's Righteousness. it consits in Both His Active and Passive obedience.

    His passive Obedience, when He died, pays the penalty for all the Transgressions of God's Elect, satisfying His law and Justice, forgiveness of all their sins His Active Obedience is His Keeping all that the Law of God requires for a Man as Per Ecc 12:13

    Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

    Christ did this Perfectly, not for Himself however, but for the Elect of God. God views every single Elect Person that Christ lived and died for as though they themselves have kept God's Law Perfectly without ever sinning in thought, word or deed ! God views them like that before they are even born sinners !
     
  5. convicted1

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    Any righteousness we have it is by Christ and His shed blood. We are clothed in His righteousness. When God sees us, He sees us through Jesus' shed blood that cleansed our soul from any, and all, unrighteousness.
     
  6. Moriah

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    God’s Truth matters. People need to hear the Truth and be corrected and told to stop teaching falseness.

    Jesus died for all men. All have a chance to be saved. The message of the cross is powerful; it is the message of God from God. Hearing that powerful message gives hope, and THAT is what draws us to God.

    We do not receive the Holy Spirit unless God chooses to give it to someone. God who knows are hearts give the Holy Spirit to those He accepts, those who obey.

    If anyone wants to know Jesus, then get Jesus’ teachings and obey them.

    There are people who love darkness instead of light, they like their sins and do not want to give them up. Not everyone is like that.

    Be perfect as God is perfect. Aim for perfection, live your life perfecting holiness. Everything I said is from the Word of God.
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    jesus death upon the Cross was atonement for our behalf, PERIOD!

    God knows who those are who will choose Christ, as His divine election unto them secures them to have salvation in and thru.by the work of Christ, but they still MUST place faith in him in order to get reconciled back to God, as before they place faith in him, their grace provided for them only in potential, faith allows god to make it become real and actual!
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    saved by faith alone, by grace alone!

    obey God to get saved?

    Sinner can ONLY do one thing to please God , and that is placing faith in Jesus, getting saved/reconciled/justified, than start to obeying God!
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    yesh

    Not if you are not an Elect ! If God did not choose you or me in Christ before the foundation, Christ did not die for us !

    This is damnable heresy, work salvation !
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    Thats True of the Elect while they are unbelievers !
     
  11. Yeshua1

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    Are we reconciled to God right at birth then?

    there are NO verses in bible supporting that!
     
  12. Moriah

    Moriah
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    JESUS SAYS to obey, then we will receive the Holy Spirit. THAT IS WHAT JESUS SAYS.
     
  13. DHK

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    Quote the verse that says that?
    You need to back up your claims with Scripture.
     
  14. Moriah

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    So glad you asked for it. I was hoping someone would ask.
    John 14:23; 1 John 2:3; and Acts 5:32.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    Both John 14:23 and 1 John 2:3 are directed to believers who ALREADY OBEY him and neither are addressed to the lost or to unbelivers.

    Acts 5:32 does not say that obedience is the condition for receiving the Holy Spirit but merely declares those who obey Him have the Holy Spirit. However, you are trying to force the verse to read as though it is a condition when it is not.
     
  16. Moriah

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    Do you now understand? Of course, they are believers. God does not give His Spirit to unbelievers.
    The scripture is plain and simple. There is no forcing of the scripture. Stop fighting against the Word of God. God gives His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.
    We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.” Acts 5:32
     
  17. DHK

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    Your answer is a tad deceitful don't you think?
    This statement of your was said in the context of salvation:
    IOW, "When the unbeliever will obey then he will receive the Holy Spirit..."

    But now you have changed your tune, saying "God does not give his Spirit to unbelievers. So which is it Moriah.
    The Bible says "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." You can't have it both ways.
     
  18. Moriah

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    I see it is hard for you to understand. Let me explain again. A person can hear the message, and believe. That is where faith comes from. Faith comes from hearing the powerful message that saves.
    A person is to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. God who knows the heart will give the Holy Spirit to whom He chooses, when He accepts them.
    That is the Word of God!
     
  19. DHK

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    So what I hear you saying (paraphrased in my words) is this:
    First they hear the word, receive faith from God while being regenerated.
    Then they have faith to believe. Once they believe they are saved at which time they are given the Holy Spirit and are saved. Then they realize they are one of the elect.

    Moriah, you are a Calvinist! I never knew.
     
  20. Moriah

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    Where do you get that they are regenerated while getting faith? Show me where I say that about regenerated, and more importantly, show me where the scriptures say that they get regenerated to believe? That is not from the Word of God. God does not send His Word out then regenerate us to believe. God sends His word out, people hear and get faith from what they hear.

    Believing is having faith. Once they believe they are not always saved right then. They could be, but not always. If a person only had to believe, then most people would have the Holy Spirit, even though they do not obey Jesus at all. God who knows the heart gives us the Holy Spirit when He accepts us.
    That is the Word of God.
     

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