C.H. Spurgeon, A defense of Calvinism.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Dale-c, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Ok, for everyone that says that Calvinism kills evangelism check out this article from a pastor of many thousands:

    Here is the link to the rest of the article
     
  2. TCGreek

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    I've read this article before. I found it to be good. Ol' Spurgeon should continue to be a model for pastors today.:thumbs:
     
  3. Bill Brown

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    The interesting thing about Spurgeon is that he is revered in the Ariminian camp. In my early Christian years I attended a small Baptist church in Kearny, NJ. The pastor (a godly man and still a dear friend) would often quote Spurgeon and speak well of him. When I attended the Word of Life Bible Institute Spurgeon was quoted, cited and credited with being a proponent of free will. Spurgeon, an advocate of free will? It has become painfully obvious that most folks in the Arminian camp have no idea of Spurgeon's theology. All I'm asking for is a little honesty. If an Arminian did not know who wrote these words, what would be his opinion?

    I am not trying to attack my Arminian friends. Far from it. I simply wish to shed some perspective on their love affair with Charles Spurgeon. He is not the friend of their theology.
     
  4. Rippon

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    Spurgeon Was Not A Mild Calvinist

    A.W. Pink wrote a book on Election . In the 5th chapter he cited Spurgeon . He followed the quote with these remarks .

    How many who now speak of him eulogistically , and refer to him as 'beloved Spurgeon' would gnash their teeth and execrate him were they to hear his faithful and plain-spoken preaching ?
     
  5. skypair

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    It was a simple case of Spurgeon taking the "politically correct" label is what I have read. And that label issue was obviously, to me, over the issue of Armenians saying one could lose one's salvation -- which Spurgeon didn't believe.

    skypair
     
  6. Dale-c

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    Well, you have "simply" read wrong.
    So are you really denying that Spurgeon was a calvinist? Did you even read the article that I posted?
     
  7. Rippon

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    SP , as with a number of your observations -- you are very wrong once more .

    And please , don't pick on the poor "Armenians" . Please spell with me -- A-R-M-I-N-I-A-N-S .

    Spurgeon never did anything out of political correctness . You really don't know what he was made of .

    You heard this , and you heard that .You were misinformed abouyt A.W.Pink as well . Please familiarize yourself with a subject before jumping into the fray .
     
  8. psalms109:31

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    C. H. Sspurgeon

    About 14 years ago I use to find all kinds of teaching from Spurgeon, how He supported calvin and the openess of the Gospel.

    Today calvinist have clouded the internet of what they want you to hear from Spurgeon that I can't even find the stuff I use to find.

    Remember Spurgeon preached before the 5-points was born from man.
    Spurgeon support much of what calvin taught and also the openness of the Gospel for all men, the world.

    When men put thier veil on they can only see what they want to see.

    There is two sides of the coin and they desire to show you the side they want you to see.

    I love Spurgeon when He preached the Gospel, He believed in the power of the words of Jesus and the Gospel and knew at that point whosoever can come. Spurgeon really had faith of a mustard seed. Spurgeon use to say don't have excuses like I am not good enough to come or I don't know if I am the elect or not. He said you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. There is nothing wrong in believing in what calvinist teach now but believe in the power of God and the Gospel that it can make the dead alive and whosoever can come just as the scripture says. God through Jesus has opened the door for all men, don't let men give you an excuse not to come, you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. I put that in caps because in Spurgeons notes he said to shout it.

    We cannot argue with the truth of the calvinist from scripture nor can we take away the truth that whosoever may come. If we disagree with one of these truth we are as bad as them.

    They to must come to the realism of the scripture that whosever can come.

    The only way we can reach a dying world is with the whole truth of God or we make God a liar and a murderer of men just as satan is. They make many excuses not to believe the word of God by saying that all doesn't mean all or the world doesn't mean world and make God a liar.

    If God wants to love jacob and hate esua who are we to question God and His motive and if through the Gosel anyone can come who are we to question God. It is God who chooses who He will save, if He desires to save whosoever believes who are we to question God.
     
    #8 psalms109:31, Jul 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2007
  9. Rippon

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    Mr.Ps. : A little history -- Synod of Dort ( 1618/19 ) . Charles Spurgeon ( 1834-1892 ) . The 5 Points were around long before C.H.S. came on the scene .

    "Whosoever will" means those who -- not an indiscriminate call-out . The LORD gives faith to those of His choosing .
     
  10. Allan

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    I agree that it is not specifically Calvinistic teaching which kill evangelism but the taking of scripture to far regarding those doctrines to which it holds.

    If we look at the Non-Cals today, we could deduce that the Non-Cal position produces a killing effect on evangelism.

    But neither are actaully correct. 'WE' are killers of evangelism. People say "it starts in the pulpit and descends into the pew'. That may be in some cases but not across the board nor IMO the larger part. It begins when we see just how far from holiness and righteous we can get and still be considered righteous and Holy.

    When we leave our first love, we leave that which He loves as well to be undone by us.

    One of the things I love about this sermon is what Spurgeon says here toward the end of his sermon:
    A wise man indeed.
     
  11. skypair

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    Yes. As well as others. He would be one of the first to invite people to receive Christ.

    Now on another board, I am dialoguing with a Calvinist that makes a distinction between "efficacious calling" which is presentation of the gospel for all who will to believe and "regeneration" and "faith" that comes after receiving Christ.

    I can buy that if that is what anyone has been trying to tell me these last years -- that none are regenerate before salvation -- that ALL hear the word whereupon some are "efficaciously called" to believe, repent and receive Christ. These "some" ARE foreknown and predestined before creation.

    When they have been "efficaciously called," they receive regeneration changing their "hope"/belief into faith simultaneously.

    My issue has always been that in your personal life there has to be a cause within you that establishes your conversion. And if Cavlinists like Spurgeon would invite the scriptural reponse to "efficacious calling" of the gospel, then people would be saved or "elected" or whatever you want to call the rebirth/adoption into God's family.

    skypair
     
  12. skypair

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    Psalms109

    Exactly! Good summation! :applause:

    A good Calvinist hypothetical would be that God can save/elect a baby who can't believe not having yet the capacity for such belief. They've perverted the meaning of scripture to the point that infants need saving and so babies of the elect and those baptized in the Calvinist church are, of course, "elect"/saved without belief. Ugh!

    skypair
     
  13. Dale-c

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    Yes, you read the article or yes you are denying that CHS was really a calvinist?

    For what it is worth, I have read Spurgeon on the subject and I agree with him.
    So how is it that people can agree with Spurgeon and not with others that believe exactly as he did?
     
  14. David Lamb

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    Can you help me by explaining one or two things which puzzle me at the moment in your message?

    You say Spurgeon supported Calvin, then you seem to complain that "Calvinists" are making it impossible for you to find the "stuff you used to find". What "stuff" do you mean?

    How do you work that out? Charles Haddon Spurgeon was not born until 1834, over two hundred years after the Five Points of Calvinism were written at the Synod of Dort (in reply to the earlier "Five Points of Arminianism")

    Are you saying that Calvinists today don't believe that? There are people who don't believe in the open preaching of the gospel, but that is not Calvinism. Some people call it "hypercalvinism". I get the impression that many of the arguments against "Calvinism" on this board are in fact against "hypercalvinism".

    Sorry, but have you not done precisely what you are arguing against, and given only one side of the coin - one half of John 6.37?

    "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."​


    But Calvinists don't argue against the words of Christ that "whoseover will may come." However, they see, both in scripture, and in life, that there are plenty of "whosoever wont's". What makes makes the difference between a "whosoever will" person, and a "whosoever won't"? Jesus Himself makes it clear in John 6.63-65:

    63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
    64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
    65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

    Does the scripture say this? I couldn't find it. O yes, there are plenty of verses that tell us that whoever believes in Christ, and whoever wills (that is, has the desire) may come, but as I've already said, Jesus said that the Father must draw someone before that person can come to Christ.

     
    #14 David Lamb, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2007
  15. Dale-c

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    Quite an observation. I have seen that myself and it makes it really hard to have a good discussion when you are constantly being told you believe that which you do not believe.
     
  16. webdog

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    Unfortunately, from many of the arguments here, that is the only natural conclusion lead to...
     
  17. Dale-c

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    I am not sure I follow you.
     
  18. psalms109:31

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    Spurgeun

    Maybe I'm just seeing the limitation of the five points to the five word one and not to all the canons of dort say

    Like things like this i can't find anymore

    Spurgeon really had faith of a mustard seed. Spurgeon use to say don't have excuses like I am not good enough to come or I don't know if I am the elect or not. He said you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. There is nothing wrong in believing in what calvinist teach now but believe in the power of God and the Gospel that it can make the dead alive and whosoever can come just as the scripture says. God through Jesus has opened the door for all men, don't let men give you an excuse not to come, you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. I put that in caps because in Spurgeons notes he said to shout it.

    Or when he say's if God wants to save the world who are we to stand in God's way.

    I hear mostly on this board one side of the coin and want to show them the other side. They know thier side very well.

    Why I say God says that whosoever can come, because God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

    The truth of the matter is if they have no one to preach and no one is sent they can't be saved, so how beautiful is the feet who bring the good news.

    When the Gospel is preached whosoever can come or they can walk away just like the young rich ruler. Two paths are presented to them and through the power of the Gospel they can choose either one to believe and be saved or not and be condemned. Why because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Since that is truth God has given us the ability to walk away or to come. Since some people come and others don't.

    It is God who draws us and He draws us through the wiords of Jesus which was not His own but the Father who sent Him and and also Jesus words are Spirit and they are life

    God has chosen to save only those who believe in His Son and thier faith is proved by what they do.

    I know our inability, but also know the power of the Gospel. The cross has not lost it's power
     
  19. Dale-c

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    Most of what you post is good.
    Yes it is true that is how Spurgeon preached as best I can tell.
    I think what he was saying was that foreget the excuse of election to not come to Christ.
    Or it would also apply, forget election when witnessing.
    Christ never said only preach to those that will listen, we preach to EVERYONE.

    ALso as you have said, only those who believe will actually come to Christ.

    We are all together up to that point.
    Here is the dividing facter that so many refuse to deal with:
    Who makes the difference in that decision?
    Does man decide on his own? Regardless of what God wants?
    Or Does God irresistibly draw many to be saved?
    Does He change their hearts from stone to flesh so that they become willing to receive Him?


    Remeber that Jesus did not come into the world to condemn it. IT was already condemned.
    He came to seek and to save that which was lost.
    The ones that He does NOT save are deserving of what they get.
    The ones that He does saves do NOT derserve what they get.

    By the way, the command to repentance is to all, regardless of whether they are elect or not.
    Anyone who does not preach to a certain person because they believe that person to not be one of the elect is going against scripture.
    Anyone who says you can't know if you are truly saved is against the Bible as well.
     
  20. psalms109:31

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    It is God who makes the difference

    It is God who makes the difference, it is He that sent us out , it is His word that He sent us out with and it was He who did the work for our salvation.

    The wages of our sin is death not belief not faith, but death.

    No m,atter what we do we cannot save ourselves all we can do is trust in Jesus and His word. Even though God through the Gospel say's whosoever believes shall be saved it is God who makes the difference.

    Without Jesus no one can be saved in that it is God who made he difference.

    We are saved by grace through faith not by works but by faith in the word that God gave us.

    Those who put thier trust in the Lord will not be disappointed
     
    #20 psalms109:31, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2007

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