Caffeinated Teetotalers

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Arbo, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    Simple question. Are those who rail against alcohol consumption while partaking of caffeinated beverages living by a convenient double standard? In other words, is it a hypocritical position that they maintain?
     
  2. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not really.

    A person could get pulled over for buzzed driving after having one or two twelve ounce beers. I have yet to see caffeine have the same effect.
     
  3. BaptistJG

    BaptistJG
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you equating Caffeine to drunkenness in alcohol? If so could you explain your position.
     
  4. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    0
  5. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    To overindulgence, yes. Both are state-altering; and in sufficient quantities, intoxicating.

    Caffeine intoxication: http://behavenet.com/caffeine-intoxication

    The claim that it is impossible to become intoxicated by caffeine is false.
     
  6. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    So your measure of what is sin is what is legal, not Biblical?
     
  7. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    I had a friend who did the same thing.
     
  8. BaptistJG

    BaptistJG
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Drunkenness from ethanol and High doses of Caffeine are quite different. Caffeine mega doses don't give you the "who hath woe, who hath sorrow". or the not feeling pain, I have never woken up covered in vomit with an empty wallet from drinking lots of coffee.

    Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

    Call me 'nit picky', and I may be, but be not drunk with wine, the alcoholic beverage, i think of wine(s) which would now be the beers and coolers etc.

    So in terms of being Drunk, I think alcohol is kept specific in that.

    1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    sober,G3525
    νήφω
    nēphō
    nay'-fo
    Of uncertain affinity; to abstain from wine (keep sober), that is, (figuratively) be discreet: - be sober, watch.

    So from here I see again a (if you will) Prescription, specifically for alcoholic beverages.

    But, what about Caffiene? or other things. Well I mean we can overdose on vitamin C!

    1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
    1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    So I would say from these verses a principle we could apply is that if we do anything in excess where we could be defiling the body (in health, or in physical harming) is a bad thing and we should be careful.

    So I don't think its a double standard, just different principles for these substances. I mean the same goes for water, there is such thing as water intoxication... do we abstain from water... that would not be cool for our brothers in the south. :)

    just my thoughts.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    The amount of coffee that one would have to drink to obtain a coffee drunk is in excess of 250 milligrams which is the equivalent of about five 20 ounce cokes. The amount of alcohol that needs to be consumed to get drunk is one 20 ounce coke.

    So what we are talking about here is apples and refrigerators.

    I have never heard of anyone getting a coffee drunk. Quite the reach.
     
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,189
    Likes Received:
    611
    I'm not a teetotaler but my answer would be yes. Caffeine is a drug, a stimulant, that alters a person's perceptions, thought processes, and judgment. If it's wrong to use alcohol to relax, it's equally as wrong to use caffeine to get hyped up.

    That said, like alcohol I don't see anything wrong with drinking coffee in moderation.
     
  11. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know where you got the idea that caffeine alters perception, thought process, and judgement, but your sources are incorrect.
     
  12. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    Perhaps I should state my position: It is exactly the same as ITL's as quoted above.
     
  13. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    A very common example: Grumpy, antisocial people who cannot be pleasant in the morning until they have their cup of coffee.
     
  14. Arbo

    Arbo
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    Or... Recent consumption of caffeine, usually in excess of 250 mg (e.g., more than 2-3 cups of brewed coffee). (from the article)
     
  15. BaptistJG

    BaptistJG
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    I use Caffeine as a preworkout before I go to the gym for extra energy and endurance. one scoop is 225mg, I don't feel drunk (it sure would be terrible to have the spins whilst dead lifting or bench pressing haha), just a boost of energy and focus to help me make some gains.

    Being Grumpy without Coffee is due to the fact that your body is used to a substance and it wants it again (the stimulation of the central nervous system has addicting properties, we get similar effects from sweets and sugars), the same can be said for being dehydrated or even sugar abuse. I would personally file Caffeine with Foods and put it under the sin of gluttony if it becomes a stumbling block. Ill keep Alcohol in the Drugs classification for myself.
     
  16. ShagNappy

    ShagNappy
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    You really don't see the irony in that response to the questions asked considering your position on the topic? :laugh:
     
  17. BaptistJG

    BaptistJG
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suppose, I dont consider increasing energy and focus an "altered state" or "inebriated"
     
  18. ShagNappy

    ShagNappy
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boosting your ability to focus would seem to be the definition of Altered State. If your normal ability to focus needs to be increased... you altered it.
     
  19. BaptistJG

    BaptistJG
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again though, drinking lots of water helps with focus. What about when your hungry and get some brain fog and eat and everything gets all better? are we altering states of mind? Furthermore I could take this conversation even deeper, what about those who are clinically depressed and use anti depressants and actually need them. that is a change of mind, and its helpful and beneficial no? states of mind can also be changed by attitude. Again the bible comes back to Drunkenness. Im not drunk after I take a preworkout that has caffeine... im a little more excited lol, but not drunk.
     
    #19 BaptistJG, Jun 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2013
  20. ShagNappy

    ShagNappy
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not trying to bust on you, but the fall back argument against alcohol is the "altered state" stance. Which, as you have helped to show, there is a lot of things that create altered states and not many argue against those. I agree with drunkenness being a problem, but we cannot simply say an altered state is a problem.
     

Share This Page

Loading...