CAFTA vote story

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JGrubbs, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs
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    When the official 15-minute period ended, CAFTA had gone down to defeat, 180
    "nays" to 175 "yeas." But the House leadership was so politically driven to get
    what they wanted, they broke the House rules: they simply violated the time limit
    in order to keep twisting arms and making deals until they finally had bought or
    coerced enough votes to pass CAFTA nearly an hour later.

    "Twist some Republican arms until they break in a thousand pieces." That
    statement by Representative Jim Kolbe (R-Arizona) describes the Republican
    leadership's rabid determination to get the U.S. House to pass the Central
    American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) -- no matter what.

    The vote that began late Wednesday night finally ended just after midnight on
    Thursday morning, July 28. But Mr. Kolbe's statement doesn't begin to tell the
    whole truth. Here's some of what he left out.

    Because President Bush and the House leadership knew the vote would be razor
    close, the day of the vote began with the president making a rare appearance on
    Capitol Hill to speak before a closed-door, members-only meeting of House
    Republicans that morning. He even brought Vice President Cheney and Secretary
    of State Condoleezza Rice with him.

    And the arm-twisting began.

    "The last-minute negotiations for Republican votes resembled the wheeling and
    dealing on a car lot. Republicans who were opposed or undecided were courted
    during hurried meetings in Capitol hallways, on the House floor and at the White
    House. GOP leaders told their rank and file that if they wanted anything, now was
    the time to ask, lawmakers said, and members took advantage of the opportunity
    by requesting such things as fundraising appearances by Cheney and the restoration
    of money the White House has tried to cut from agriculture programs. Lawmakers
    also said many of the favors bestowed in exchange for votes will be tucked away
    into the huge energy and highway bills that Congress is scheduled to pass this week
    before leaving for the August recess." -- The Washington Post, July 28, 2005

    Yet despite all the bribes and threats (one congressman estimates at least $47
    billion in pork, and probably much more), the Republican establishment would later
    that night fail to get the U.S. House to pass CAFTA when the legitimate 15-minute
    voting period would expire. CAFTA would be stopped fair and square.

    But even though House Republican leaders preach the importance of good morals,
    and run for office on "family values," their game plan already included buying votes
    and breaking the rules to get what they wanted. Before the CAFTA debate even
    began Wednesday evening, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay stated, "It will be a
    tough vote, but we will pass CAFTA tonight." A bold prediction by Mr. DeLay,
    considering that the vote was too close to call, and he knew it. But when you have
    the power to break the rules and no qualms about doing so, you can afford to make
    such predictions.

    Two hours of debate on CAFTA ended in the U.S. House at 10:59 p.m. Wednesday
    night. Representative Ray LaHood (R-Illinois), speaker pro tempore, then ordered
    a 15-minute vote -- at the end of which CAFTA had been defeated! But with the vote
    kept open for more than one hour after it began, the "final" vote tally was 217 in favor
    to 215 against, with two not voting. Or was it? We were led to believe that the two
    members who didn't vote, Jo Ann Davis (R-Virginia) and Charles Taylor (R-North
    Carolina) who were already on record as going to vote "no" and would have
    defeated CAFTA, had been persuaded to remain silent. Mr. Taylor's was a key
    vote from a textile state that everyone was watching.

    Republican leaders "spent much of [the] time wrestling with about 10 rebellious but
    'undecided' Republicans, pleading and pressuring one after another to vote for the
    agreement." -- New York times, July 29, 2005. The herd mentality dictates that if
    you can break key resistance, the rest will follow.

    But on Thursday, the day after the vote, I received a telephone call from a talk radio
    host in Congressman Taylor's district. He told me he had asked Mr. Taylor that
    morning why he didn't vote against CAFTA as he had pledged. The talk radio host
    told me "Taylor said he had voted 'no'...but somebody changed it and Mr. Taylor
    was furious." "'I voted NO,' Mr. Taylor announced in a terse statement on Thursday,
    saying the House clerk's written log showed his vote...." -- New York Times,
    July 29, 2005.

    So, the Republican leadership claimed their razor-thin victory. On Thursday,
    presidential press secretary Scott McClellan bragged, "And on the Central
    American Free Trade Agreement, last night's vote was a real victory for the
    American people...." Well, Scott...that's what Bill Clinton told us about NAFTA
    in 1993.

    See how your U.S. representative voted. If he voted against CAFTA, please thank
    him. If he voted for CAFTA, please express your opinion.

    Vote Tally
    http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/votes/?votenum=443&chamber=H&congress=1091

    Thousands of you throughout the country worked hard to protect U.S. sovereignty
    from the globalists' agenda. It is hard work. Sometimes it seems thankless -- but
    we are stronger for every effort we make. Next time, a hair's breath loss like this
    could be a narrow victory. Don't give in and don't give up.

    Thank you for your efforts! We won't give up.

    Source: The Liberty Committee
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
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    No retreat! No surrender!! [​IMG]
     
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    It was a small good deal for Indiana. This business about the clock goes on all the time. Indiana farmers should be helped by this deal so that should make the far right angry--they probably will throw their fast-food wrappers out their Lexus car windows as they speed down Hoosier highways and litter our beautiful farms with their out-of-state refuse.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
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    CAFTA is a good deal only for those who want to see the emaciation of the U.S. economy.
     
  5. JGrubbs

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    Sorry CMG, but I don't eat fast-food, I don't litter and can't afford a Lexus!

    Please don't try to turn every thread into an "I hate the far right Constitution Party" thread. It would be nice if we could discuss issues like adults, instead of toss insults like a bunch of high school kids.
     
  6. KenH

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    Jonathan, cmg has been mindlessly bashing the CP for over a year now. Maybe it's his only hobby. [​IMG]
     
  7. carpro

    carpro
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    That's politics for you. :rolleyes:
     
  8. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    I don't hate the CP--I fear them. Big money rules them. They are out to get little farmers and are out to get poor Hoosiers.
     
  9. JGrubbs

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    HUH?? The Constitution Party has anything but "Big Money", if we had "Big Money" I think we would have done a little better than .5% in the last election.

    Why would you say the CP is out to get the little farmers and the poor? Do you have any factual information to base your acusations on, or is this just another of your pointless rants?
     
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    My dear malefactor, Indiana farmers benefit from CAFTA and that is the reason that Hoosier Republicans in Congress voted for CAFTA.
     
  11. JamesBell

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    CMG, you know how this discussion is going to go. CAFTA is evil according to many people, and those views are well represented here. Personally, I like CAFTA and think that those the oppose it will be proven wrong in the long run. But, right now emotions are too high for the opponents to possibly see that any good could come from the legislation.
     
  12. carpro

    carpro
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    http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.bysec/consideration.html

    "If any Member requests a recorded vote and that request is supported by at least one-fifth of a quorum of the House (44 Members), or 25 Members in the Committee of the Whole, the vote is taken by electronic device. After the recorded vote is concluded, the names of those voting and those not voting are entered in the Journal. Members have a minimum of 15 minutes to be counted from the time the record vote is ordered. The Speaker may reduce the period for voting to five minutes on subsequent votes in certain situations where there has been no intervening debate or business. The Speaker is not required to vote unless the Speaker's vote would be decisive."
     
  13. JGrubbs

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    First came NAFTA, then CAFTA, next is the FTAA.

    Do you support that as well?

    The NAFTA, WTO, CAFTA, and FTAA stepping stones to first regional, then world government are clearly following the European Union model

    Source: http://www.stoptheftaa.org/

    CAFTA's Threats to U.S. Independence
     
  14. church mouse guy

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    My guess is that the Speaker also has the power to decide if the clock is correct or not. I know that the clock is stopped all the time in both houses of the Indiana state legislature.
     
  15. JGrubbs

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    If you watch the votes on CSPAN you will see that the Speaker does enforce the 15 minute rule on votes that are going in his party's favor. They extended the vote past 15 minutes and used the same arm-twisting tactics to pass the Bush Rx Prescription Drug Welfare plan.
     
  16. carpro

    carpro
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    It's still not a violation of House rules.
     
  17. KenH

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    It may not be a violation but it is certainly a manipulation used only in special situations by the party in control of the legislative body.
     
  18. Terry_Herrington

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    This is bad, but expected.

    It astonishes me how so many people will sit quietly and watch even more of our manufacturing base disappear and then have the audacity to claim this is good for our country!
     
  19. church mouse guy

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    That's just it--everybody does it--Democrats and Republicans. If the Far Right ever got control, they would to if they decided that telling time was constitutional on anything but a sundial.
     
  20. KenH

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