Cain and Abel

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Walls, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Walls

    Walls
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    Why did God have respect for Abel's offering and not Cain's?

    Gen 4:4...And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
    5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. ...
     
  2. Daniel David

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    Two reasons:

    1. Cain did not offer his sacrifice by faith.
    2. Cain offered the wrong sacrifice.

    Note, this wasn't a sacrifice for salvation. It was apparently a command that the Lord had given though.
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    Look at their offerings. Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground ... implying some vegetables. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. Abel brought a blood sacrifice, his best, fattest and most perfect lamb.

    Cain's offering is not called 'his best' or anything other than an offering which is much like the prayer of the Pharisee, for show. God saw the intent and the heart condition of these brothers and accepted the true offering of Abel's all.

    Diane
     
  4. blackbird

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    Cain brought a sacrifice from a "cursed" ground--See Genesis 4:1-3-God told Adam "cursed be the ground for thy sake"---he brought sacrifices of "works" based---having to till the cursed ground (1) by the sweat of his brow and (2) among thorns and thistles

    He was doing it---his own way---which later became known by Jude and Peter as "The way of Cain"---verses "The way of Christ"----you may say that Cain became the first "Anti-Christ"

    Brother David

    Fulfilling God's command by your own way---is disobedience---and God demands obedience!
     
  5. sandrocksam

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    I believe Diane's post says it correctly. Abel brought his "best" the "first", he obvously wanted to please God, Cain is giving a token, keeping the best for himself.
     
  6. Walls

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    I must have missed something, but up to this point, I don't see in the scripture where God commanded any kind of offering or sacrifice.
     
  7. Walls

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    Look at their offerings. Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground ... implying some vegetables. Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. Abel brought a blood sacrifice, his best, fattest and most perfect lamb.


    Diane, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. What pleased God is that Abel brought the best, most perfect offering he had?


    Cain's offering is not called 'his best' or anything other than an offering which is much like the prayer of the Pharisee, for show. God saw the intent and the heart condition of these brothers and accepted the true offering of Abel's all.


    Cain's offering was that of a Pharisee, for show. Does that mean he was giving the appearance of worship or service to God, but not really offering from the heart the best he could provide to God? And this is what displeased the Lord about Cain's offering?
     
  8. Daniel David

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    Walls, do you think Cain and Abel invented the idea themselves?
     
  9. Walls

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    I do believe you are right. Abel wanted to please God.

    In Hebrews 11:4 By Faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous , God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    I find this very interesting that through faith in God and His word Abel knew what pleased God. Wouldn't Cain know this, too?

    Obviously what Abel had to offer was more excellent, seeings how Cain made no special effort to please God.

    The offering that Abel gave testified of his righteousness. This was an open testimony of Abel's service and obedience to God.

    God testified of Abel's gift because it was of service and obedience from the heart. But when God did testify of this Cain was wroth. Gen 4:5... And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

    Even then God was gracious and merciful to Cain. Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
    7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door....

    At this point, Cain knew without a doubt what God expected but still didn't comply. And then being angry with his righteous brother, he slew him. Gen 4:8 ....and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.


    Isn't it funny how, Abel wanting to serve God with all his heart was killed by an angry brother who refused to follow God's word?
     
  10. Walls

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    No, just wanting proof that God had precisely told Abel what was expected of him. Many professing Christians don't seem to know what God expects of them, they seem to be more like Cain than Abel. While Abel who was righteous had no problem pleasing God through obedience and service.

    Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
    2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
     
  11. dianetavegia

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    Walls, you want "proof" God told Cain and Abel what he expected of them and yet you make assumptions about Adam and Eve?


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    originally posted by Walls: My two cents worth. Yes, Eve was decieved but why?

    Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    If you notice in this verse she gave the fruit to Adam, it does say she went to him or had to find him.

    Is it possible that Adam was there during the whole conversation between the serpent and Eve? If Adam was in fact there, then He is responsible for the sin. He could have been the man, he could have stood up to the serpent and said "get thee behind me" or some such thing!

    If Adam wasn't there, then how is it that Eve wasn't with Adam. Wasn't she supposed to be his helpmeet, right there beside him? How is it possible that she was decieved? Did she wonder away from her rightful place and why did Adam allow her to go?

    I think it is a very good lesson for both men and women!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Diane
     
  12. Ps104_33

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    You all missed it.

    N-O B-L-O-O-D!
     
  13. dianetavegia

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    NOPE... I didn't miss it. Abel brought a blood sacrifice, his best, fattest and most perfect lamb
     
  14. donnA

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    Walls, what pleased God was that it was a blood offering, a blood sacrifice. It is a picture of the need of blood form someone perfect (unblemished) for sin. It is a picture that demonstrats Jesus' furture sacrifice. It is the second time in scripture we see blood being shed because of sin.

    At some point God would have told them to sacrifice to Him, like David said, sacrifice was not thier idea, they had no idea of it's far reaching meaning. And as I said it was actually the second blood sacrifice for sin. From the moment of man's first sin God has been leading them to Jesus by demonstrating the the need of Jesus' death for us.
    Everything that ever happened in these poeple lives are not written in scripture, whats written in scripture is what we need to know, what isn't there we did not need to know. So you may never find in it the proof you want.


    This is after the fall, and since then there have always been people who did not want to come to and meet God in the way He chooses, but they way they choose. They still do it today.
     
  15. Baptist Believer

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    There was nothing wrong with an offering of crops. (At least, there was no explicit reason not to offer crops to God recorded in scripture.) When God gave the ceremonial law to Moses, God specifically authorized offerings of grain to Him:

    --
    Leviticus 2

    1   'Now when anyone presents a grain offering as an offering to the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour, and he shall pour oil on it and put frankincense on it.
    2   'He shall then bring it to Aaron's sons the priests; and shall take from it his handful of its fine flour and of its oil with all of its frankincense. And the priest shall offer it up in smoke as its memorial portion on the altar, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD.
    3   'The remainder of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons: a thing most holy, of the offerings to the LORD by fire.
    4   'Now when you bring an offering of a grain offering baked in an oven, it shall be unleavened cakes of fine flour mixed with oil, or unleavened wafers spread with oil.
    5   'If your offering is a grain offering made on the griddle, it shall be of fine flour, unleavened, mixed with oil;
    6   you shall break it into bits and pour oil on it; it is a grain offering.
    7   'Now if your offering is a grain offering made in a pan, it shall be made of fine flour with oil.
    8   'When you bring in the grain offering which is made of these things to the LORD, it shall be presented to the priest and he shall bring it to the altar.
    9   'The priest then shall take up from the grain offering its memorial portion, and shall offer it up in smoke on the altar as an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD.
    10   'The remainder of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons: a thing most holy of the offerings to the LORD by fire.
    11   'No grain offering, which you bring to the LORD, shall be made with leaven, for you shall not offer up in smoke any leaven or any honey as an offering by fire to the LORD.
    12   'As an offering of first fruits you shall bring them to the LORD, but they shall not ascend for a soothing aroma on the altar.
    13   'Every grain offering of yours, moreover, you shall season with salt, so that the salt of the covenant of your God shall not be lacking from your grain offering; with all your offerings you shall offer salt.
    14   'Also if you bring a grain offering of early ripened things to the LORD, you shall bring fresh heads of grain roasted in the fire, grits of new growth, for the grain offering of your early ripened things.
    15   'You shall then put oil on it and lay incense on it; it is a grain offering.
    16   'The priest shall offer up in smoke its memorial portion, part of its grits and its oil with all its incense as an offering by fire to the LORD.
    --

    Since the scripture does not record any explicit instructions regarding acceptable sacrifices for Cain and Abel and the ceremonial law given many years later explicitly approves the offering of crops, it is likely that the objects of sacrifice had little to do with their acceptability.

    More likely, it was because of the attitude in which Cain offered his sacrifice or his faithlessness.
     
  16. Daniel David

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    In Hebrews, it says he offered a better sacrifice.

    At the very least, the lamb was superior to the grain.

    Also, Cain is said to have had a wicked heart while Abel was an example of faith.
     
  17. blackbird

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    In Hebrews 11:4 the word says that "by it he being dead yet speaketh."

    A bloody sacrifice was required looking forward by faith to coming promised Messiah who would be "bloodied" for me and you!! Abel obeyed! Cain disobeyed!

    If you think about it---two deaths took place that fateful day!! When Cain plunged the knife--suddenly 1/4 of the earth's population was gone!!

    Able had to first of all---die to self and be made alive in Christ---this is what he did by faith offering that bloody sacrifice!!

    Then Able died physically!!! And Cain was offered an opportunity of repentance for disobedience---but he refused and tragedy of all tragedies the Bible says that Cain "went out from the presence of the Lord."--Genesis 4:16---tradegy of all tradegies---Psalm 16:11 tells us what Cain refused and rejected--"In Thy presence there is fullness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures forevermore."

    I believe with all my heart--the invitation was opened for Cain to "come to Jesus!" But Cain refused to come to Jesus Jesus' way!! Jesus' way was through a cross--which Abel pictured through his sacrifice---living by faith, his sacrifice said to himself and to Cain---"Messiah's coming!! And this is what He's gonna do!!"

    Brother David
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    The one mentioned who was dead was Abel, not the sacrifice.

    I can’t find a record of this command. Can you give me a reference?
     
  19. Watchman

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    I always felt it was due to the attitude of these two. Abel was God (Christ) centered, Cain was self-centered; Not too much different from Ananias and Sapphira in Acts chapter 5. God loves the cheerful giver, not the one who gives grudgingly. Perhaps Cain heard that his brother was going to do this and said, "Me too!" God doesn't want us to be a, "me too" giver, but one who has in his/her heart a willingness to give.
    There is absolutely nothing here saying that God commanded these sacrifices, nor what those sacrifices should be. It is true that there were grain offerings in the Mosaic Law. To say Cain's was rejected because his was a grain offering, while Abel's was accepted because it was an animal (blood) sacrifice is conjecture.
     
  20. Walls

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    Yes I want proof that God had commanded a certain sacrifice to be made. That way there is no margin for error in intrepetting scriptures by anyone.

    You see so many Christians say that some verses are cultural or don't apply. Maybe Cain believed that this was one of those commands or teachings, therefore he could bring what he wanted, rather than what was expected and acceptable to God.

    The point is righteous Abel was looking to please God and knew what would please him and did so with all his heart. While Cain didn't put forth any special effort to please God.
     

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