mwc is wanting to talk about Cain and God, so I started a thread here... It's not just because they rejected Christ, but died as unrepentant sinners. Many died never knowing Christ existed. Many died never hearing the gospel. ***NEXT*** This sentence is too choppy. Please clarify. Not all faiths are the same. Dead in 'transgressions and sins' sinners have zero saving faith, no divine, God-given faith. Unless God divine bestows saving faith to the sinner, they justly die in their sins. He came to SAVE not try to save. If He came to SAVE the world, then the world will be saved. World doesn't mean all of its inhabitants. I can say americans are all over the world, but the world isn't solely made up of americans. Also, I can say the gospel is going all throughout the world, but not everyone in the world will hear it. Wrong. They are condemned because they are sinners. Many died not knowing Jesus existed. Do they get a pass? Do they receive less heat in hell than those who spurned the gospel message? He came to seek and save...not try to seek and attempt to save...them that are lost. He said all the Father gave Him COME to Him, and He will not lose one of them. Oui. It's not what I think or say that matters, but what the bible says. He told the Pharisees in John 8 His word had no place in them. Why? They were not of His sheep. He even told them the devil was their father. Not by birth, mind you, but by relationship. Another verse that gets torn to doll rags. Who was propitiated? Man or God? God. Now that His wrath has been appeased, if Christ propitiated for God on behalf of everyone who ever lived, then what about those who died in their sins pre-cross? What wrath is there for God to mete out on the day of judgment? Zilch, zip, nil, nadda, none, nothing, &c. Already addressed this. Yes it should. But sadly, for many it is not. Never stated anything to the contrary. Huh? We get a pass? Not saying infants go to hell, but this is something I think people have to streeeetch to come to this conclusion. How did we come to believe? John 6:29 answers that. Innate faith will save nary a soul, Monsieur. Nary. A. Soul. Man was created upright. Yet, when he fell, he marred that image in the fall. We are made in the image of Adam(see Genesis 5:3), the marred image of God. So, man fell, died, yet didn't lose all of faculties? Man's will fell in the fall. It is now bent towards sin and self. His faith, in his fallen state, is towards anything, anybody BUT God. And consequently lost it in the fall. Wrong. That faith we possessed pre-conversion, saved nary a soul. Nary. A. Soul. Unless you are 'born from above', born again, born anew, made a new creature, you can not see the Kingdom of heaven.