Cain and Seth

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    As we all know Cain killed his brother Able.

    Now, if Cain had given a proper sacrifice to God, and never had Killed Able, do you think the lineage of Christ would have flowed thur the blood of Cain?
     
  2. quantumfaith

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    Is the ancient practice of the first born having "the special place" a dictum of God, or was it cultural practice established for some reason?
     
  3. kyredneck

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    not as Cain was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his works were evil, and his brother`s righteous. 1 Jn 3:12

    Do you think that Cain was 'of the evil one' because he never gave the proper sacrifice, or, do you believe that Cain never gave the proper sacrifice because he was 'of the evil one'. You know, which came first, the chicken or the egg? I say the latter was the case. And no, I do not think the lineage of Christ would have flowed through the blood of Cain, who was of the evil one. I refuse to believe there are any of our Lord's ancestors that are of Satan.

    Pink brings out an astounding type in this story, IMO. All the Firsts vs Seconds in the scriptures carries the same exact line of type/antitype, [i.e. “But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now.”], Ishmael & Issac (Gal 4:22-31), Essau & Jacob (Ro 9:10-13), Saul & David (1st king of Israel vs 2nd king of Israel). From 'Gleanings from Genesis' by Arthur Pink:

    http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Gleanings_Genesis/genesis_08.htm

    "Now all these things happened unto them for types (margin); and they are written for our admonition" (1 Cor. 10:11).

    “Abel is a striking type of Christ, and his murder by Cain was a remarkable foreshadowment of our Lord’s rejection and crucifixion by the Jews. At least thirty-five points of resemblance can be traced here between type and antitype. In considering Abel as a type of our Lord, it is to be noted that, like Isaac, offered up on the altar and the ram caught in a thicket, which afterwards took his place in death, we have here a double type also. Both Abel and the offering which he brought pointed to the Lord Jesus.”

    36 similarities itemized:

    Abel was a shepherd (Gen. 4:2)
    Our Lord is a "shepherd"—the Good Shepherd—

    It was as a shepherd that Abel presented his offering unto God
    It was as the Shepherd He presented His offering to God (John 10:11)

    Though giving no cause for it, he was hated by his brother. Cain was jealous of his brother. i
    Though giving no cause for it, Christ was hated by His brethren according to the flesh (John 15:25).

    It was out of "envy" that Cain slew he slew Abel.
    It was through "envy" that Christ was delivered up to be crucified (Matthew 27:18).

    Abel then did not die a natural death.
    Our Lord did not die a natural death. He was "slain" by wicked hands (Acts 2:23).

    Abel met with a violent end at the hand of his own brother.
    Christ was crucified by "The House of Israel" (Acts 2:36), His own brethren according to the flesh.

    After his death God declared that Abel’s blood "cried" unto Him, and severe punishment was meted out upon his murderer.
    After His death our Lord’s murderers were severely punished by God (Mark 12:9)

    Abel presented an offering "unto God" (Heb. 11:4).
    The Lord Jesus presented an offering "to God" (Eph. 5:2).

    That the offering which Abel presented was "the firstlings of his flock": in other words, a "lamb."
    The offering Christ presented was Himself—a "Lamb" (1 Pet. 1:19).

    In bringing his offering "by faith," Abel honored and magnified the Will and Word of the Lord.
    In presenting Himself as an offering He honored and magnified the Will and Word of God (Heb. 10:7-9).

    The offering which Abel presented is described as an "excellent" one (Heb. 11:4).
    The offering Christ presented was an "excellent" one—it was a "sweet smelling savor" (Eph. 5:2).

    God had "respect unto Abel and to his offering": in other words, He accepted them.
    God accepted Christ's offering: the proof of this is seen in the fact that He is now seated at God’s right hand (Heb. 10:12).

    In the presentation of his offering Abel "obtained witness that he was righteous" (Heb. 11:4).
    While presenting Himself on the Cross as an offering to God, Christ "obtained witness that He was righteous "—the centurion crying, "Certainly this was a righteous man" (Luke 23:47).

    After Abel had presented his offering, God publicly "testified" His acceptance of it.
    God publicly testified His acceptance of Christ’s offering by raising Him from the dead (Acts 2:32).

    Abel’s offering still "speaks" to God—"By it he being dead yet speaketh."
    Christ’s offering now "speaks" to God (Heb. 12:24).
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just as Abel and his offering are, at every point, a wonderful type of Christ and His offering, so Cain, who slew Abel, prefigures the Jews, who crucified their Messiah.

    Cain was "a tiller of the ground" (Gen. 4:2). Thus the first thing told us about him connects him with the land.
    The first thing which is conspicuous about the Jews was that they were the people of a land the promised land, the Holy Land (Gen. 13:15).

    In refusing to bring the required lamb, Cain rejected the offering which God’s grace had provided.
    In refusing the Lamb of God (John 1:11) the Jews rejected the offering which God’s grace had provided.

    In his self-righteousness Cain brought an offering of his own choosing.
    The apostle Paul declares that the Jews were "ignorant of God’s righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness" (Rom. 10:3).

    The offering he brought was the product of his own labors.
    The Jews rested upon their own obedience to God’s Law (Rom. 9:21).

    This offering was rejected by God.
    But God had no respect to the Jew's works (Acts 13:39).

    It was Cain’s God-given privilege to rule over his brother (Gen. 4:7).
    Had Israel walked in God’s statutes they would have been the head of the nations (Deut. 28:13).

    Cain forfeited his God-given privilege to rule over his brother.
    But through sin the Jews forfeited the place and privilege (Isa. 9:14).

    Being envious of Abel, Cain wickedly slew him.
    It was the Jews who crucified the Christ of God (Acts 5:30).

    God charged Cain with his crime.
    God charged the Jews with their crime (Acts 2:22, 23).

    God told Cain that Abel’s blood cried for vengeance.
    Christ’s blood is now judicially resting "upon" the Jews (Matthew 27:25).

    Because of the shedding of his brother’s blood, God’s curse fell upon Cain.
    Because of the crucifixion of their Messiah, God’s curse fell upon Israel (Jer. 24:9)

    Part of Cain's punishment consisted in the ground becoming barren to him (Gen. 4:12).
    Part of the curse which God threatened of old to bring upon Israel was the barrenness of their land—"desolate" (Lev. 26:34, 35).

    Further, Cain was to be a fugitive and vagabond in the earth.
    The Jew has been an age-long wanderer in the earth (Deut. 28:65).

    Cain acknowledged that his punishment was greater than he could bear.
    Israel will yet acknowledge their punishment is greater than they can bear (Zech.12:10).

    Because of his sin, he was "driven out" (Gen. 4:14).
    Forty years after the Crucifixion, Israel was driven out of Palestine.

    Because of his sin, he was hidden from God’s face.
    Since the Crucifiction, God’s face has been hid from the Jews. (Hosea 1:9).

    Every man’s hand was now against Cain (Gen. 4:14).
    For nigh 2,000 years, almost every man’s hand has been against the Jew (Deut. 28:66).

    God set a mark upon him (Gen. 4:15).
    A mark of identification has been placed upon the Jew so that he can be recognized anywhere.

    God declared that He would visit with a sevenfold vengeance those who slew Cain.
    God’s special curse has always rested on those who have cursed Israel (Gen. 12:3).

    Cain left the land and went and dwelt in a city (Gen. 4:17).
    For the most part, even to this day, the Jews continue to congregate in large cities.

    “Upon what ground can we account for this remarkable agreement between type and antitype? The only possible explanation lies in the supernatural inspiration of the Old Testament Scriptures. The Holy Spirit "moved" the writer of Genesis. Only He who knew the end from the beginning could have foreshadowed so accurately and minutely that which came to pass thousands of years afterwards. Prophecy, either in direct utterance or in symbolic type, is the Divine autograph upon the sacred page. May God continue to strengthen our faith in the divinity, the authority and the absolute sufficiency of the Holy Oracles.”
     
    #3 kyredneck, Dec 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2010
  4. Salty

    Salty
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    Redneck,

    could you edit your post at the top with a basic yes or no - then we can read the full thesis :thumbs: :type:
     
  5. quantumfaith

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    Here is my "simple" two cents:

    God himself said to Cain:

    If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door, it desires to have you, but you must master it.

    Whether that pronouncement says anything about the OP, I dont know for certain.
     
  6. kyredneck

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    Buried in sixth sentence down:

    Sorry, sometimes I get carried away, the types in scripture have always astounded me.
     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Merry Christmas, Salty, quantamfaith, and kyredneck.

    I don't think that there mere actions of Cain is what caused him to be unacceptable. To me, his unacceptable offering, killing of his brother, and open disdain for God by speaking to Him flippantly and rudely were just a sign of what was in his heart to begin with before he ever made that unacceptable offering.

    Here's what the New Testament says about Cain.

    The author of Hebrews said that the difference in the two sacrifices was that Abel was coming to God in faith and in righteousness. John says that Cain was of the "evil one". And Jude associates Cain with Balaam and Korah.

    Cain didn't come to God in faith. He didn't present his offering "by faith." Genesis 4 says that immediately Cain was angry and his countenance fell. To me that means his anger and jealously showed all over his face. Before Cain killed Abel, God came to him and asked him what was wrong. God told him to watch out - that sin was crouching at the door. Cain completely disregarded everything God said BEFORE he killed Abel. I think that's a pretty good indicator of where his heart lay in the first place.

    God HATES an offering made with a wicked heart.

    Look at this testimony by God, Himself, from Isaiah 1.



    God's people were doing exactly what He said to do in terms of offerings. But they were also living wickedly. God asked them to repent and come and reason with Him

    Cain did not make an offering from the place of worship nor faith. And he did NOT come and repent and reason before God. He murdered his brother and shrugged God off.

    King David said, after Nathan called him on the carpet about his victimizing Bathsheba, in his great psalm of repentance that "Offerings and sacrifices are not what you want. The way to please you is to feel sorrow deep in our hearts. This is the kind of sacrifice you won't refuse."

    Whether offering the best of yourself in service, money, time, talent, or whatever God compels you to offer, it must be done with a humble heart and by faith.

    Cain was a hopeless case, in my opinion, before the thought ever entered his mind to kill his brother.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty
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    Well, we have something in common!
    thanks for your very insightful post.

    Actually, I came up with this thread from the last paragraph of post # 3 of this thread (not counting the quoted paragraph)
     
  9. zrs6v4

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    no because of Genesis 4:25-26. God chose to use the lineage of Abel if that is your question. :)

    25 Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth,[h] saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.” 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.

    Then notice the rest of chapter 5 deals with The Geneology of Seth that ultimately leads to Christ.
     
  10. menageriekeeper

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    No. God has a history, if you will, of using the younger/weaker to overcome the older/stronger. Not only was Seth the younger brother, but so was Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon and probably others that I can't remember off the top of my head. Even Saul said he was from the least tribe of Benjamin.
     
  11. zrs6v4

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    I agree with this. I would also add that it was God's decision not to use Cain but Abel's replacement Seth. God's choosing of Israel is arguably the same method throughout all elected vessels in the genealogy of Jesus.

    Gen 25:24, "23 The LORD said to her,“Two nations are in your womb,
    and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”

    Mal 1:2-3, "“I have loved you,” says the LORD.“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’ “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

    Romans 9:10-13, " 10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

    Notice that it is God's election in He physical people that results in those of His choices. I do not want this to be a salvation debate so I want to make it clear that this is not where Im going with it. The point is that God chose Abel, Seth, and so on... Not by their deeds but by His eternal decree.
     
  12. zrs6v4

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    Simple is good. If it were that simple :)

    My response to God's elective choices in Israel goes a little deeper. Looking at Jacob for example, he made a lot of choices. A lot of bad choices and decieving choices that were not good. He lied to his father, ripped off his brother (a type of selfish hatred), and gained the birthright. God still chose to use Jacob because God chose to by mercy alone (I'm not speaking of salvation I remind you). Paul puts it this way:

    Romans 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand

    I think we can logically conclude that this is how God dealt with Cain and Abel and everyone else who became the children of promise or children of the flesh Galatians 4:21-31.
     
    #12 zrs6v4, Dec 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2010

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