Cals: A Majority to be Saved?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by humblethinker, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. humblethinker

    humblethinker
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    Would it dissapoint a calvinist if the elect only amounted to a minority of God's created beings and that a majority of them would suffer eternal existance? One on this BB has expressed that he likes to believe that God will save a majority and seemed to express that scripture supported his view. I found this odd... the idea that scripture supports that a majority would be saved and wonder what the motivation was for wanting to believe something that scripture did not support.

    Any other calvinists have a particular view or idea about this?
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Yea yea, that would ruin the day & we would be bigtime upset with God. ROLF ....now that really made me laugh hysterically! I got to tell you humblethinker, you should work as a comedian....Oh, tears are rolling off my cheeks,,,,,Oh my :laugh::laugh::laugh:your killing me HT.....LOL

    Musta been the heat .....right?
     
    #2 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2011
  3. kyredneck

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    Actually I've wondered many times if it's the free willers who long for only a few to eek by and 'make it'; I pick up a sense of vindication they expect to have on the last day when they see themselves standing there with just the few and the majority that are doomed for destruction.

    It's my humble opinion that the most of the lump of mankind from Adam on belong to the Lord.

    God is stronger than the devil, you know.

    I see the majority of Christians, Cal & Arm alike, being outright reckless and hasty to assign eternal consequences to soooo many passages that I simply don't see it (eternal consequences). I've yet to see it proven that sozo (saved) is synonymous with the aquisition of the free gift of eternal life.
     
  4. JesusFan

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    Look at it this way...

    IF one is a "non cal" wouldn't though the idea of God election unconditional appeal to you?

    IF you see God as loving all people equally, wouldn;t God decide to save all peoples, as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of the Lord, but that in Christ God reconciled all back to himself? As jesus died for all?
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    If God did His electing using the following criteria, then NONE of His fallen creatures would indeed make it into His heaven in eternity future he might as well just had dissolved His entire creation from day one:

    1. Repentance
    2. Obedience to the gospel and acceptance of it
    3. Separation
    4. Correct Theology
    5. Submission
    6. Acceptance of Christ as his/her personal Savior
    7. Correct Soteriology
    8. Faith
    9. Spiritual Rebirth/Born Again/Regeneration
    10. Correct General Doctrine (belief in the blood of Christ, belief in the divinity and humanity of Christ, belief in the Triunity of God, adherence to one's order's "distinctives", belief in the virgin birth of Christ, belief in the second coming or "future events", and [fill in the blank]).
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    The reason is because most of the above, not necessarily in the order listed, are predicated to the person hearing the gospel. Repentance towards God and from sin are a natural result of conviction, conviction comes from coming under the power of the Spirit in a gospel setting, which produces faith (faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God) in God and in His word, which prods obedience to gospel preaching and teaching, from which instructions in the word may bring one to the doctrines and principles his particular order demands to be believed in.

    Which raises more questions: are the doctrines true and correct ? what if they're not ? does it mean I need to go on and keep on searching and hoping that God in His mercy directs me to the correct one ? or should I take the risk and just stay and sit where I am at and hope to God I am in the right one.

    Or, am I separate enough to be acceptable ? Is my faith acceptable and strong enough ? Am I truly repentant ? Was my prayer of acceptance of Christ, my sinner's prayer, heard ? Can I rely on this brother or that sister when they told me I have been saved and accepted of Christ because I believed so, on the basis of my having come forward to accept Him ?
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    And then there is the question of Chronology. When was the gospel caused to be sent out ? at what point of history, at what point of time ? if it was more or less two thousand years ago, then WHAT OF THOSE PRIOR to that point, who have not heard and who have not believed as we do in our era ?
    Were the apostles able to cover the entire earth ? were the churches able to cover the entire earth ?
    So, how many do you think were the apostles or the churches able to reach out to of the Roman peoples, of the Greeks, of the barbarians, of the Gauls, or of the Mongols, or the tribes in all the islands and continents of the earth ? Are they not God's creation, too ?
    Had God planned it so that He would be justified to consign them to eternal damnation because they are unable to repent, have faith toward Him, receive His Son as their Savior, convert, learn correct theology, leave their idols and paganism and corruption on this earth and turn towards Him, and all those nitty-gritties we so demand of fallen sinners in order for them to be saved IN OUR SIGHT ?
     
    #7 pinoybaptist, Jul 25, 2011
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  8. pinoybaptist

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    So, given what I think you think to be the correct soteriology, which is God NOT HAVING THE AUTHORITY TO ELECT/CHOOSE WHOM HE WILL BE MERCIFUL TO, how many do you think of God's creatures will be in heaven in eternity future compared to them being able to do their choosing of God instead based on their not-totally-fallen selves, or sinners bringing the gospel to them so they can choose God ?

    I hope with this somewhat lengthy answer some light as to the folly of depending on one's faith and righteous works and doctrines, chruch membership and soteriology, has penetrated to you, versus letting God be God and depending on His mercy and righteousness and falling under His mercy, for after all that is what Scriptures say:

    NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESSES WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US. (TITUS 3:5)

    For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate , them he also called : and whom he called , them he also justified : and whom he justified , them he also glorified . (Romans 8:29-30).

    So then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy . (Romans 9:16)

    After this I beheld , and, lo , a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (Rev. 7:9)
     
    #8 pinoybaptist, Jul 25, 2011
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  9. pinoybaptist

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    Stick around and read how your fellow believers incorrectly divide the word to prove that God is wrong to take the initiative of saving His people from all parts of the earth, from every second of the clock, from every chronology of time, from every age, from every island and islet, from every tribe, by exercising His right to be merciful to whom He wants to be merciful
     
    #9 pinoybaptist, Jul 25, 2011
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  10. Amy.G

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    That's not what Jesus said.

    Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    That Scripture pertains to gospel obedience unto temporal blessings, not eternal blessings that Jesus Christ alone, by His finished work gives, which stands alone and independent of man's striving.

    Either Christ did it by Himself, with no input from us, or He needed our abilities to help Him do His job.
     
  12. Amy.G

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    Temporal blessings? When we put our faith in Christ for salvation, we receive eternal life. What's temporal about that?

    And there is no striving. That would be works salvation. We are saved by grace through faith and not of works. Faith is not a work.

    Of course Christ did it by Himself. It wasn't me up on that cross. But you must believe. Jesus said so.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Well Well Well Tim......would you like to come live in NJ !?! you go brother.....does my heart good to here it.....Amen Bro Amen :love2:
     
  14. Amy.G

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    Are you aware that Pinoy believes that God saves people and they don't even know it? That they don't need faith? This is hyper-cal. Is that what you believe?
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

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    That makes Him sound like He had to lean on humans....kinda impotent.
     
  16. JesusFan

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    Do think ALL of us once we get to heaven and see God as he really is...

    We will be shocked that ANY made their way to heaven, as we will really know how Holy God is, and how sinful we once were!
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I think your using a label without clear understanding of what that label means. Could you explain to me in detail what a Hyper Calvinist is, or do you really mean Supralapsarian, or perhaps Infralapsarian......perhaps you can give us definition of each since your an "Expert" in defining Calvinistic positions.
     
  18. Amy.G

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    Hypers don't believe the gospel needs to be preached. They believe people are saved (eternally) with or without it.

    I have learned this from Pinoy himself over the years. I love him, but don't agree with him.
     
  19. humblethinker

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    I appreciate that being your opinion. I would be surprised though if you didn't have scripture to support that. Can you provide the scripture that teaches such?
     
  20. humblethinker

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    It sounds like you're asking me theoretically which reality would result in more souls saved, a calvinistic or arminian reality. If that's what you are asking then I would say that there is already a current thread with that very same idea.

    I created this thread asking whether it would dissapoint a calvinist if the elect only amounted to a minority of God's created beings and that a majority of them would suffer eternal existance. I did not find anywhere in your response where you answered my question (If so, please point it out to me being that I may have misunderstood it).

    Scripture does not seem to support that a majority would be saved and I wonder what the motivation was for wanting to believe something that scripture did not support.
     

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