Calvinism and Free Will

0 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Sure very simple.

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

3) what happened to man in the garden?

Last one...

i give up. I will save this one. Priceless

 

For crying out loud, does nobody here have anything better to do than argue over what issues we should divide over?! :BangHead:

For the record:

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

Duh...God. Since He created everything, it had to have been His desire to place the tree in the garden.

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

Naw...He's God, but He didn't have a clue! :tonofbricks: Of course He knew what would happen.

3) what happened to man in the garden?

Man chose to disobey God, at the urging of his wife. She allowed Satan to deceive her, chose to disobey God and persuaded her husband to do the same. Adam and Eve were responsible for their choices to disobey God. God was not responsible for their choices, He did not want them to choose to disobey, but yes, He knew that they would.

Now, I know that's not what a lot of you want to hear, but deal with it. For the record, I don't consider myself Calvinist or Arminian, or anything else. I am a Christian and a member of a Baptist church. That means I follow Christ..not any man (or woman, for that matter). Now, why doesn't everybody go get out their Bibles and read about how Jesus wanted us all to be united in following Him. I think that would be a lot more productive than continuing this argument. :thumbs:

 

God

Yes.

Man choose to reject the truths God had already given him for lies, thus sinned.



None of these answers conflict with the non-Calvinist view.

The problem between our two views is not that God didn't know about sin but was it the intention of God to make His creation sin or give them the choice to sin.
One makes God the first cause of sin in making His creation sin by giving him no real choice but TO sin. - As in - His plan was to make man sin and then determine the means.

The other view acknowledges that God knew sin would come about if His creation (man or angel) had a choice and that knowledge was part of His Full plan. Not that God 'wanted' sin in His creation and that it fall, but that God knew sin would neccesarily come if his creation had a choice.

Therefore it was not God's desire FOR sin specifically to be - but - that He KNEW sin would be if a choice was permitted.


It boils down to - Did Adam have a ligitimate choice TO sin or not?
- thus permit or determine.

 

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