Calvinism and the King James Bible

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  1. Will J. Kinney

    Will J. Kinney
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    Calvinism and the King James Bible

    I Timothy 2:3-5

    "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL HAVE all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

    Much of modern Christianity pictures God as a grandfatherly figure wishing so badly that his errant creatures would heed his pleadings and decide of their own free will to choose to believe and cast their vote for God. For those of us who have been granted by our gracious Lord to see the great truths of election and sovereign grace, we should be greatly concerned to see how many of these truths have been diluted in the new bible versions.

    Comparing scripture with scripture we see that the phrase "all men" refers to both Jews and Gentiles. It means all categories of men, not all men without exception. The Arminian view always proves too much. There were multitudes of men who were already lost and in hell when Christ died. So does "all men" include those who had perished in their sins before Christ came to this earth?

    In the Old Testament God chose only the nation of Israel to be his people. "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth." Deut. 14:2. But now the Messiah has come to be the Saviour of His people which are taken out out every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue. "God did visit the Gentiles to take out of them a people for his name." Acts 15:14.

    Even in the Old Testament times a Gentile could come to Israel and learn of the true God. Notice carefully the expression used in Solomon's prayer at the dedication of the temple in I Kings 8:41-43: "Morover concerning A STRANGER, that is not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake; (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm;) when HE shall come and pray toward this house; Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that THE STRANGER calleth to thee for; that ALL PEOPLE of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as do thy people of Israel."

    Observe that this prayer refers to one Gentile who comes to pray to the true God. "All people of the earth" therefore does not mean every individual but all men without distinction of nationality, be they a Jew or a Gentile. Again in Isaiah 56: 6, 7 it says: "Also the sons of the stranger (Gentiles) that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD...Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer...for mine house shall be called an house of prayer FOR ALL PEOPLE." Obviously this does not mean every individual without exception will join himself to the LORD, but all without distinction of nationality.

    When the apostle Paul relates his conversion experience we can see how this same thought is expressed. In Acts 9:15 the Lord tells Ananias concerning Paul: "But the Lord said, Go thy way; for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel." Yet in Acts 22:14, 15 Paul himself tells us that Ananias came to him: "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shoudest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. For thou shalt be his witness unto ALL MEN of what thou hast seen and heard." Do you see it? All men = the Gentiles, kings and the children of Israel. All men without distinction of nationality or social standing. Obviously Paul did not speak to Noah's sons, the Cherokee indians, Genghis Khan or Bill Gates.

    At the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, the devout Simeon came by the Spirit into the temple, took up the babe in his arms and said: "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of ALL PEOPLE; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel." Obviously not every individual Gentile or Jew would be lightened by this salvation, but the Messiah will save all people without distinction of nationality, not all people without exception.

    This is why Paul continues in I Timothy with these significant words. In verses 6 and 7 he says: "Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." Why does he say he is not lying but telling the truth that he was a preacher and teacher of the Gentiles? Because now in the New Testament dispensation Christ, the Jewish Messiah, is gathering from the heathen Gentiles a people for his name and together the elect Jews and the elect Gentiles are what make up the "all men".

    This is a consistent, biblically defined use of the term "all men" or "all people". The "all men" is not the problem with the modern versions, but the NKJV, NIV, and NASB have all translated the verb "to will" in such a way as to create a direct contradiction with several other verses and contribute to the pathetic god image so common today.

    The King James Bible, as well as Tyndale, the Geneva Bible, Young's, Webster's 1833 translation, the Revised Version, the Third Millenium Bible and the 21st century KJV all correctly translate God " WILL HAVE all men to be saved", or "wills" all men to be saved. The verb is thelo and, when used of God, means to will to do something and since He rules over all, what He wills He does.

    The NKJV and NASB say God "desires all men to be saved " while the NIV says he "wants all men to be saved". This rendering contradicts passages where this same verb or noun form is used in referrence to God.

    He "worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL" Ephesians 1:11; "For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth WHOM HE WILL" John 5:21; and in Romans 9:16 - 18 we read: "So then it is NOT of him that WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Therefore hath he mercy on whom HE WILL have mercy, and whom HE WILL he hardeneth." Again with a different word but with the same thought is James 1:18 "OF HIS OWN WILL begat he us with the word of truth."

    The new versions portray a schizophrenic god who on the one hand desires or wants to save everybody, and yet a God Who in fact saves whom He wills.

    Respecter of Persons

    There is a subtle twisting of God's inspired words taking place in many modern versions in how they are rendering the phrase "respecteth not persons". This is so subtle, that I believe most Christians have not noticed it. The change in meaning produced by versions like the NKJV, NIV, and NASB unfortunately fits in with so much of modern, popular theology, that many would actually consider it to be an improvement over the KJB's reading. It fits the philosophy of the natural mind of man.

    The concept that "God has created all men equal" does not come from the Holy Bible. God obviously has not created all men equal, nor does He deal with every single individual or nation in what seems to us as a fair and impartial manner. Many have become so influenced in their thinking by the reasoning of the world, that they cannot discern this obvious truth.

    God has created, formed and made each of us. Yet He has not given to all equal intelligence, good looks, physical skills, nor spiritual gifts. "He divideth to every man severally as He will." Exodus 4:11 tells us "And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?".

    Not all are born in a country which even has the word of God in its culture, or where it would be openly taught and encouraged. Psalm 147:19,20 "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD." Some are born in abject poverty, disease and ignorance, while others are blessed with abundant crops, education and families that care for them. "The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all." Proverbs 22:2.

    The phrase "to accept the persons of men" or "to respect persons" does not mean, as the modern versions have translated it, "to show partiality" or "to show favoritism". One of the chief arguments of the Arminian side against the doctrine of election is: "God does not show partiality or favoritism, so election cannot be true." The new bibles are reinforcing this fallacious argument.

    Not to show partiality is to treat all men equally; and this God does not do, as His word clearly testifies. Daniel Webster's 1828 dictionary defines "respecter of persons" as a person who regards the external circumstances of others in his judgment, and suffers his opinions to be biased by them. God's dealings with a man are not based on outward appearance, position, rank, wealth or nationality. Rather, His own sovereign purpose and pleasure of His will are the only deciding factors.

    We are told in Deuteronomy 7:6-8 "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people: for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you". Deuteronomy 10: 14-17 "Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day." Verse 17 "For the LORD thy God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which REGARDETH NOT PERSONS, nor taketh reward." Here both election and not regarding persons are used in the same context.

    God says He chose only the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and their seed to be His people, and not the others. That He "regardeth not persons" means that He does this, not on the basis of their nationality, nor their good moral character (for they were a stiffnecked and rebellious people), but because is was His good pleasure to do so. Other Bibles that agree with the KJB here are the Revised Version, the ASV of 1901, the Geneva Bible, the 1936 Hebrew-English, Youngs, Darbys, the Spanish versions and Websters Bible. However the NKJV, NIV and NASB have "shows no partiality". If God chose Israel to be His people, and not the others, is not this showing partiality?

    Deut. 14:1,2 "Ye are the children of the LORD your God...and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth." Why did not God choose the other nations to be his children and to know his laws? Isn't this showing partiality or favoritism?

    One verse among the hundreds that have been messed up by the NKJV, NIV and NASB is 2 Samuel 14:14. Here Joab saw that king David's heart was toward his son Absalom. So Joab sends a wise woman to speak to the king. In verse 14 she says: "For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again: NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him." In other words, we all must die, whether rich, poor, Jew, Gentile, man or woman, king or servant; God does not look at our social station and on this basis exclude some from death.

    Agreeing with the King James reading here are the 1917 Hebrew English, Young's, the Geneva Bible, Websters Bible, the KJV 21, Third Millenium Bible, and the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras. But many bibles, including the NKJV, NIV and NASB have the ridiculous reading of "YET GOD DOES NOT TAKE AWAY LIFE", instead of "neither doth God respect any person". This is a lie and a contradiction. In this very book in chapter 12:15 "the LORD struck the child" of David and Bathsheeba and it died. In I Sam. 2:6 we are told "The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up", and in Deuteronomy 32:39 God says "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

    It is not that the Hebrew will not allow the meaning found in the KJB, that the NKJV, NIV and NASB have so badly mistranslated 2 Samuel 14:14. They all likewise have translated these same words in other places as they stand in the KJB and others.

    Thi phrase "no respecter of persons" is found six times in the New Testament, and every time the modern versions have distorted the true meaning. Romans 2:11, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25, James 2:1 and 9, and Acts 10:34. In each case it has to do with not receiving the face, outward position, nationality or social rank of another. But God does not treat all people the same, nor are we told to do so either. We are to withdraw from some, avoid, exclude, reject, seperate from, and not cast our pearls before others. Most importantly, God Himself chose His elect people in Christ before the foundation of the world and "of the SAME LUMP" makes one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour - Romans 9:21. This is definitely showing partiality, but it is not respecting persons.

    Romans 2:11 says "For there is no respect of persons with God." So also read the ASV, Geneva, Revised Version, Spanish "acepción de personas", Lamsa, Webster's, 21st Century KJB, TMB, and the KJB II of Green. Young's says there is no "acceptance of faces". But the NKJV, NASB say "no partiality" and the NIV says "not show favoritism". The Worldwide English N.T. says: "God does not love some people more than others". Yet this very book declares in Romans 9 "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of him that calleth...Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated...I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy...So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy...Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."

    Please consider the true meaning of the phrase "no respecter of persons" and contrast it with the modern rendering. I hope you will see that it is not the same at all. Only the KJB contains the whole truth of the counsel of God.


    Faith is a gift from God.

    Faith or belief is a gift from God. Faith is not something we can produce on our own. God has to give it to us. Those who are not His sheep do not believe because they are not His sheep. John 10:26. Jesus said to the Pharisees "But ye believe not, BECAUSE ye are not my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

    The reason you and I believe the gospel is because God Himself gives us faith. Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as GOD HATH DEALT TO EVERY MAN THE MEASURE OF FAITH."

    The "every man" in the context is the "every man among you" or those who are already Christians. Not everyone has faith. 2 Thes.3:2 "for all men have not faith" and obviously there are unbelievers.

    Phil. 1:29 "For unto you IT IS GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for his sake."

    Eph. 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD."

    Eph. 1:19 "And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward that believe, according to the working of his mighty power" Tyndale and Geneva Bibles note that Faith is the work of God only, even as the raising up of Christ. The same power that raised up Christ, is the power of God that causes us to believe the gospel. This truth has been obscured in the NASB and NIV. They both add words not found in any Greek text and change the meaning of the passage.

    The NASB says: " and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. THESE ARE in accordance with the working of the strength of His might..."

    The NIV has: "and his incomparably great power for us who believe. THAT POWER is like the working of his mighty strength..."

    Scripture speaks of "the faith of God's elect" Titus 1:1

    We are told that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith - Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith."

    Acts 3:16 "yea, the faith which is by him (not just 'in' him, but BY Him) hath given him this perfect soundness "

    Acts 18:27 "he helped them much which had believed THROUGH GRACE." It wasn't just that they believed "in" grace, by it was 'through grace' that they believed.

    Acts 14:27 "they rehearsed all that God had done among them, and how He had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles." If God doesn't open the door, there is no faith.

    Acts 16:14 "Lydia...whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of by Paul"

    Acts 15:9 "and put no difference between us (believing Jews) and them (believing Gentiles) purifying their hearts by faith." God purified their hearts by faith, not 'because of' faith. God did it and He did it by faith which He himself gave them. It was not "their part".

    Acts 13:48 "and AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED." Their having been ordained to eternal life preceeded their believing. The reason they believed is because God had ordained them to faith in the gospel.

    1 Peter 1:21 "Who by Him believe in God that raised him up from the dead" Again, it is BY HIM that we believe in God.

    2 Peter 1:1 "to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ".

    They obtained this faith, they did not have it to begin with and then did their part to exercise it.

    1 Cor. 12:9 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom... to another faith by the same Spirit."

    Gal. 5:22 one of the parts of the fruit of the Spirit is faith. The Spirit produces faith, but the new versions like the NKJV, NIV and NASB have changed this to 'faithfulness'.

    1 Cor. 3:5-6 "Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." You can preach and teach gospel truths, but unless God Himself gives the increase and causes the seed to sprout and grow, there is no belief and no life.

    The NASB & NIV have both changed the meaning of this section, added words not in any text, and don't even agree with each other.The NASB says: "through whom you believed, even as the Lord GAVE OPPORTUNITY to each one." This fallacious reading pictures God as giving the opportunity to believe, as though faith comes from us. This fits with today's Arminian theology.

    The NIV, on the other hand, differs from them all and says: "only servants, through whom you believed ---as the Lord HAS ASSIGNED TO EACH HIS TASK." The NIV's focus is not on the believing being from God, but on the task God gave to Paul and Apollos.

    The Faith OF Jesus Christ

    One of the many serious changes being made in the modern bible versions is how they are altering the phrase "the faith OF Christ". Many times the phrase "by the faith OF Jesus Christ" has been changed to "by faith IN Jesus Christ". See for example Romans 3:22; Galatians 2:16, 20; 3:22; Ephesians 3:12; Phillipians 3:9; James 2:1; Revelation 2:13; and 14:12.

    Romans 3:22 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference."

    Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

    Here the NKJV, NIV and NASB have all changed this to "faith IN Jesus Christ", thus changing the truth that this faith comes from Jesus Christ and instead implying that it comes from ourselves.

    This is not a question of Greek texts differing, because they all say the same thing, dia pisteos iesou xristou, the genitive of possession or source. We speak of the birth of Christ, the death of Christ, the resurrection of Jesus, the body of Jesus, the cross of Christ, the riches of Christ, the kingdom of Christ, the glory of Christ, and many other things using the same grammatical construction, but suddenly the NKJV, NAS, NIV, and most modern bibles now have "through faith IN Jesus Christ."

    The older Bibles - Tyndale, Geneva, Darby, Young's, Webster's 1833 translation all read as the King James Bible, and so do the Third Millenium Bible and the KJV 21, but the ASV of 1901 changed about half of these references to "the faith OF Jesus Christ" to faith IN Jesus Christ, and from then on all the references have been changed in the NKJV, RSV, NASB and NIV.

    Deuteronomy 32:5

    Tremendous error and contradiction have been introduced into this section of Scripture by the NKJV, NIV and NAS “bibles”. This is part of the song of Moses which says in verses 3-5: “I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.”

    The next verse is where the lies of the modern versions enter. The true Holy Bible says: “They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation. Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?”

    If you look at the context, in the previous chapter God told Moses that the people would enter the promised land and would go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land and turn to other gods. God knew this before He brought them into the land, so their entering the land did not depend on their foreseen obedience to the law, but rather because of the covenant of grace made with Abraham.

    They are still His children whom He bought (verse 6) , His people and inheritance (verse 9) and verse 19 still refers to them as “his sons and daughters”. They are His children even though disobedient, just as your child is still your child no matter what he does.

    God’s children did corrupt themselves with strange gods, and the spot or blemish they received belonged to the idolatrous practices of other people, but they are still His children, bought by God and belonging to Him as the rest of the chapter shows.

    Now look at the NKJV in verse 5. “They have corrupted themselves: They are NOT His children, Because of their blemish.” The NAS is similar with its: “They are NOT His children because of their defect”. Both these versions tell us they are not His children, and then in the very next verse tell us they are His children because He is their Father and He bought them!

    The NIV is even worse with its: “to their shame they are NO LONGER his children”. This teaches that one can be a child of God and then lose it and no longer be His child, yet verse 6 and 19 still refer to them as His children!

    These are obvious false doctrines and contradictions. Other versions that agree with the KJB in verse 5 as teaching they are still His children are Darby, Youngs, Spanish, Italian Diodati, Hebrew-English of 1917, Daniel Webster’s 1833 translation, the Third Millenium Bible and even the NRSV of 1989.

    Psalms 110:3

    "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power."

    This verse is often used to support the truth that it is God who worketh in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phillipians 2:13. This is also the reading of the RV, ASV, Darby, Amplified, Hebrew Names Version, Webster's, Spanish Reina Valera, TMB, and the KJV 21.

    However the NIV says: "Your TROOPS will be willing on your day of BATTLE." The NKJV has: "Your people will be volunteers in the day of your power" while the NASB reads: "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of your power."

    1 Peter 1:22


    "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth THROUGH THE SPIRIT unto unfeigned love of the brethren..." This is a textual issue, but the phrase that shows we obey the truth through the Spirit of God is found in the vast majority of all Greek manuscripts. The NASB and NIV are based on very different manuscripts and omit this phrase.

    1 Peter 2:25

    "For ye were as sheep going astray; but ARE NOW RETURNED unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." The verb here ARE RETURNED is passive, not active. If we say the books are returned, we mean someone else brought the books back; the books didn't return themselves.

    The RV, ASV, Tyndale, Geneva, Hebrew Names Version, World English Bible, Third Millenium Bible,and the KJV 21 all correctly translate this as "are now returned" unto the Shepherd. Even the Douay-Rheims says: "but are now converted to the Shepherd". This is not only grammatically but theologically correct. It is Christ our Shepherd who brings us back to Himself. The Lord Jesus said in John 10:16 "And other sheep I HAVE, which are not of this fold: them also I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd."

    The NKJV, NIV and NASB all make it sound as though we had returned on our own. They say: "you HAVE RETURNED TO the Shepherd".

    1 Corinthians 4:7

    "For who MAKETH THEE TO DIFFER FROM ANOTHER? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"

    This precious verse teaches the distinguishing grace of God. We are no better than the non-elect. God makes of the same lump one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour. All is of grace and we can boast in nothing found in ourselves.

    The reading or meaning is the same in the RV, ASV, NKJV, Young's, Darby, even the NIV and others. However instead of "Who maketh thee to differ from another" the NASB says: "For who REGARDS YOU AS SUPERIOR?". How would you even answer this question in the NASB? Does God regard you as superior? Is there something special in you that is not found in another? It doesn't even make sense.

    Psalms 78:36

    "Nevertheless they DID FLATTER him (God) with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues."

    Psalm 78 rehearses the repeated sins of God's people and His continued faithfullness and mercy to them. We can flatter God by saying nice things about Him, yet walk contrary to His ways. This is called hypocrisy. The reading is the same in the RV, ASV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, Geneva Bible, NIV and many others - they did flatter God. However the NASB actually says: "But they DECEIVED HIM with their mouth." Can the all knowing, sovereign God be deceived by mortal man? Does the NASB portray the true God of the Bible, one that can be deceived?

    Numbers 23:21

    In the book of Numbers chapters 22 - 24, the false prophet Balaam had been called by Balak the king of Moab to curse Israel. God allowed Balaam to go with Balak, but rather than cursing the people of God, Balaam was compelled to bless them instead.

    In Numbers 23:19-21 we read these beautiful truths: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.”

    The next verse, 21, expresses a great truth in the KJB, but this is where the error of the new versions occurs. Verse 21: “He hath NOT BEHELD INIQUITY in Jacob, NEITHER HATH HE SEEN PERVERSENESS in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them”.

    God has always dealt with His people according to the everlasting covenant of grace revealed to Abraham and his spiritual seed, confirmed to them and fulfilled in Christ.

    Galatians 3:12-29. “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” God had redeemed His people out of Egypt (Exodus 6:6) and forgiven their sins, even though they were a stiffnecked people ( Numbers 14: 19, 20).

    Just as God sees us as blameless, holy, and without spot (Ephesians 1:4; I Corinthians 1:8), not because of our own obedience or righteousness, but because we are covered with the righteousness of Christ, so too, were His people in the wilderness. This is a very important aspect of the doctrines of grace.

    But see how this truth has been lost in the NASB, RSV and the NIV. The NASB says: “He has not observed MISFORTUNE in Jacob; Nor has He seen TROUBLE in Israel.” The NIV has: “No misfortune is seen in Jacob, no misery observed in Israel.” There had been plenty of misery and misfortune in Israel, but God is speaking a blessing through Balaam upon His redeemed people and stating how He sees them because they are His own peculiar people. “Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” Romans 8:33. This great comforting truth in Numbers 23:21 is lost in the NASB and NIV .

    I do not believe any other English bible contains all of God’s perfect, preserved, inspired words except the King James Bible. Frequently, the new version proponents like to gang up on the KJB, as though it were the only Bible to read a certain way.

    Other versions which agree with the KJB here are the Hebrew into
    English versions of 1917, 1936, put out by the Hebrew Publication Company and the Jewish Publication Society of America, the Revised Version 1881, the ASV of 1901, Geneva Bible, Young’s translation, Darby, the NKJV, Amplified, KJV 21, TMB, World English Bible, Hebrew Names Version, Bible in Basic English, Webster's translation, New Century Version and the Spanish Reina Valera of 1602 and 1960.

    There is a huge battle going on in these days of falling away from the faith. The authority and truth of God's inerrant, perfect words and the doctrines of grace are under direct attack. Only in the King James Bible are all of God's perfect words of truth found today.

    Will Kinney
    http://geocities.com/brandplucked
     
  2. Siegfried

    Siegfried
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    Will, just a friendly recommendation:

    If you want people to read your posts, try to limit them to a handful of paragraphs.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD
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    Dear Will,

    I am TRO.

    However, God's method was to proclaim His Word in "koine" Greek. The "common" language of the people.

    The language of the KJB is no longer the common language of the people.

    The Hebrew and Greek are the Words of God that never change and are the same as the day they were written. That is the one saving grace of a "dead" language IT NEVER CHANGES.

    The English language changes day by day.

    HankD
     
  4. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Siegfried is correct. It facilitates better discussion if you don't perform a hard drive dump to begin a thread.

    I just skimmed your post and will make two points:

    1- Calvinism is a truth taught in any good translation but there are some passages in all versions that can be misused to undermine this truth. If Calvinism hinged on the perfection of the KJV then it would not be sustainable.

    2- There are no directly inspired words in the KJV. Until you prove there is, you just make yourself look foolish for repeating this error.
     
  5. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    perhaps Calvinism isn't too well served by the King James at Lk 2:14--

    KJB--Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

    NIV--"Glory to God in the highest,
    and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."

    while the KJB sounds like a vague general outpouring of "good will" to anyone, the NIV brings out God's decretive will in electing certain individuals for His shalom.
     
  6. try hard

    try hard
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    Previously posted by Ransom on another forum:
    There you have it. The kjv also supports Calvinism. Have a good day! [​IMG]
     
  7. Will J. Kinney

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    Hi Hank, You said: "Dear Will,
    I am TRO.
    However, God's method was to proclaim His Word in "koine" Greek. The "common" language of the people.
    The language of the KJB is no longer the common language of the people.
    The Hebrew and Greek are the Words of God that never change and are the same as the day they were written. That is the one saving grace of a "dead" language IT NEVER CHANGES.
    The English language changes day by day.>>

    Hank, it is funny that you apparently thing the language of the KJB is archaic and not the language of today - then you apparently think we should all learn Hebrew and Greek which are far more difficult.

    By the way, there are no set, accepted by all, universally recognized Hebrew and Greek texts.

    Where are God's words today?

    Will
     
  8. Will J. Kinney

    Will J. Kinney
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    Hi Scott, you said: "1- Calvinism is a truth taught in any good translation but there are some passages in all versions that can be misused to undermine this truth. If Calvinism hinged on the perfection of the KJV then it would not be sustainable.

    I agree with you on this one.

    2- There are no directly inspired words in the KJV. Until you prove there is, you just make yourself look foolish for repeating this error.

    I agree there are no "directly" inspired words in any version or Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. No originals exist. The Inspired words of God like water in a vessel. If the same water is poured into another vessel, even of another shape, with no additions of foreign matter or subtraction of content, it is the same 'water'.

    Scripture says All Scripture IS GIVEN by inspiration of God. Not WAS given.

    Do you have the Scriptures?

    Will
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  9. Will J. Kinney

    Will J. Kinney
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    Hi Forever settled, you posted: "perhaps Calvinism isn't too well served by the King James at Lk 2:14--
    KJB--Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
    NIV--"Glory to God in the highest,
    and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."
    while the KJB sounds like a vague general outpouring of "good will" to anyone, the NIV brings out God's decretive will in electing certain individuals for His shalom. "

    The NIV is a total paraphrase of a corrupted text and one could well ask why does God's favor rest on that person. The answer could then be given "Because this person loves God, or believes God, or is seeking God, or whatever.

    You are reading into the passage what you want to see there.

    The Majority of all remaining Greek texts, the Coptic Boharic, Syriac Peshitta, Harclean, Siniatic, Armenian, Ethiopic versions, as well as Sinaiticus and Vaticanus corrections all read very differently than your NIV.

    They read as the KJB has it. "en anthropois eudokia" Good will toward men.

    The text used by the NIV, NASB say literally "peace on earth to (or among) men OF GOOD WILL"

    This is a corrupted textual reading, but that is what the NIV, NASB greek text actually says, and in fact the Catholic Douay and J.W. bibles (which use the same basic text as the NIV, NASB) read this way. "peace to men of good will."

    There is no possible way that the single word found in the corrupt text used by the NIV, "eudokiaS", that extra added S that changes everything, can by any logical stretch of the imagination can correctly be translated as "on whom His favor rests." There is no direct object (on whom) , no subject (His favor) and no verb (rests).

    How you could read through,( perhaps you didn't read it) the blunders I pointed out in the NIV and then come back with the response you made, is very amusing.

    I'm glad to hear you believe in election. Can you defend the NIV, NASB or NKJV in the verses I pointed out where they pervert the truth and show themselves to be false witnesses?

    Will
     
  10. Will J. Kinney

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    Hi Tri Hard, >>>Two examples will suffice for now:
    // And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified
    // the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life
    // believed. (Acts 13:48)
    Acts 13:48 in the KJV says that the Gentiles who believed in Pisidian Antioch were the ones who were "ordained to eternal life." To ordain means to prearrange unalterably, to appoint, to predestine. Acts 13:48 proves the Calvinist doctrine of unconditional election: those who believed, did so because they were chosen to do so. Not "as many as believed were ordained to eternal life," but "as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
    // And we know that all things work together for good to them that
    // love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
    // (Rom. 8:28)
    For whom do all things work for good? Them who are called? No, them who are *the* called. Not an indeterminate number, but a specific, definite group. This verse does not merely say that all things work together for good for those who are saved. It says more: that all things work together for good to them who are "the called." >>

    I agree. I know quite a few Christians who see the truth of election AND King James Onlyism, but it is ironic that many who see election do not see the truth of the Bible version issue, and most KJB onlies do not believe in election.

    You made a good point about "THE called" being a specific group, but did you notice that you cannot make the same point using the corrupt NASB, or NIV?

    Will
     
  11. try hard

    try hard
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    Yes. That is why I believe the NIV and NASB have superior underlying texts. Great point. [​IMG]

    Are you a Calvinist? What are you doing in the Baptist only section?
     
  12. Ransom

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    Will J. Kinney said:

    I agree. I know quite a few Christians who see the truth of election AND King James Onlyism, but it is ironic that many who see election do not see the truth of the Bible version issue

    Election is taught in Scripture, KJV-onlyism isn't.

    Where is the irony in accepting God's truth as true, and rejecting man's tradition as false?

    You made a good point about "THE called" being a specific group, but did you notice that you cannot make the same point using the corrupt NASB, or NIV?

    Sure I could, just not from Rom. 8:28. But once again, by saying one "cannot make the same point" without further qualification, you demonstrate KJV-onlyism's characteristic failure to see the forest for the trees.

    [ October 23, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    Actually it says "pasa graphe theopneustos." Notice that "inspiration" is lacking. "God breathed" is what the text says, which incidentlly the NIV is the only translation that got it right here. Also significantly missing is verb. The text is equating "all Scripture" with "God breathed" as a timeless principle, without regard for "is" or "was."
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    I enjoyed your post and the christian manner it was presented in. You need to update your profile to read Baptist or according to the posting rule you cannot post here... Looking forward to more postings and invite you to the Calvin/Arminian Forum if you so desire!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  15. Will J. Kinney

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    Hi Larry, you post: "Originally posted by Will J. Kinney:
    Scripture says All Scripture IS GIVEN by inspiration of God. Not WAS given.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    &gt;&gt;&gt;Actually it says "pasa graphe theopneustos." Notice that "inspiration" is lacking. "God breathed" is what the text says, which incidentlly the NIV is the only translation that got it right here.&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Larry, your comments illustrate what I have been saying about your Bible position. Your own mind if your final authority. You say the NIV got it right here. That, again is only your opinion. There are many other translators who have translated their versions after the NIV, and they still say "given by inspiration of God."

    Holman Christian Standard, NASB 1995, Third Millenium Bible, KJV 21 etc.

    To "breath" is contained in the word "inspire". To breathe into. Expire - to breathe out or die. Conspire- to breathe together.

    The NIV actually communicates the wrong idea. When we think of Scripture being God breathed, what comes to mind is God blowing words into the air and they float there suspended.

    Your saying the NIV rendering got it right is just your opinion. Other "scholars" apparently disagree with you, including the NASB. I thought that was your preferred version.

    You are being what is called a Bible Rummager, you pick and choose verses out of the different versions according to your own likes and dislikes. You have no single book you stick to.

    All "bibles" do not teach the same things doctrinally. Do you care to defend any of the contradictions and blunders I pointed out in the NASB, NIV, NKJV in the original posting?

    Did they "get it right"?

    Does God not take away life" Does God not show any partiality? Can God be deceived? Were the children of Israel in Deut. God's children or not? or were they at one time and then lost it, like the NIV communicates? Does God desire all men to be saved and yet He saves whom He wills, and thus He is self contradictory and at cross purposes?

    Which of those versions is the inspired or "god breathed" version?

    &gt;&gt;&gt;Also significantly missing is verb. The text is equating "all Scripture" with "God breathed" as a timeless principle, without regard for "is" or "was." &lt;&lt;&lt;

    Again, Larry, you ought to clue in the other bible translators. They apparently do not know this. Should there be a verb there or not? How would you render it?

    Did you know that some versions say "Every Scrpture inspired of God is profitable", thus implying that some scripture is not inspired of God?

    Other versions say "All Scripture is given by God" and say nothing about Inspired or Breathed at all.

    So when there is a difference in meaning between two readings or meanings, then the average Christian goes to a third party, i.e. the scholar or pastor, and this person then decides which one is right or how it should be rendered. This person then becomes the final authority. That is the position you are occupying. You like the NIV in this certain verse, but not in that one. There you prefer the NASB or whatever.

    One last question, Larry. If Scripture is inspired of God, can it be in error? If there is a proven error in a bible version, is that version then still to be considered as Scripture?
     
  16. HankD

    HankD
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    Dear Will,

    You responded to my response...

    No, but we need another group of scholars like the KJV translators to translate the TR into the common English of the 21st century.

    Neither is there a set accepted by all, universally recognized English texts.

    Similar to your view of the KJV English text, I accept by faith that the underlying Greek and Hebrew of the KJV is the preserved Word of God.
    The same place they were before 1611AD.

    Psalm 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

    Do you think it is 1611 English?

    HankD

    [ October 25, 2002, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  17. Will J. Kinney

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    Hi Hank, you brought up some interesting points. You stated: "No, but we need another group of scholars like the KJV translators to translate the TR into the common English of the 21st century."

    Brother, I see the hand of God and His sovereignty in giving to the English speaking people His pure words without proven error in the King James Bible.

    No one has produced a bible version without serious errors since. The NKJV does not always follow the same Hebrew texts nor the same Greek texts that underlie the KJB. The NKJV changes the meaning of literally scores of verses and teaches false doctrines I can name and give examples of.

    I believe we need to accept the Bible God has given us. The other English version pretenders have disappeared from common use, and pass into the dustbin of history. Witness the Geneva bible, the RV, ASV, Berkley, Williams, Darby, Youngs, RSV, scores of others, and the fast disappearing NASB.

    The only one that has been carried to the farthest ends of the earth and translated into hundreds of languages and used in every legitimate revival is the KJB. It is the only one that is defended vigorously as being the inspired words of the living God. New Version promoters do not believe their translation is perfect. Just listen to them.

    It may be that God will raise up another perfect Bible, but at this stage of the battle I seriously doubt He will. If He does, it will be recognized by many common believers and born witness to by His sovereignty.

    Nothing else today on the 'market' comes close to approaching this high standard.

    Where are God's words today?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You answer: "The same place they were before 1611AD.
    Psalm 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."

    What good do they do us if they are found only in heaven? We are told to search the Scriptures - then they must be available for us here on earth.

    "Do you think it is 1611 English?
    HankD"

    Yes, brother Hank, I do.

    Just as the Hebrew and Greek texts you speak of, these languages are readable and understandable by Jews and Greeks today, but they are in a slighly "archaic" form, so too is God's living, infallible word today found in an unchangeable and distinctive "older" and more accurate form.

    This is to its advantage, it is not a disadvantage. The KJB has power to it and more readily fixes itself on the mind of the reader or hearer. The new versions are as bland as cardboard and contain proveable errors that show them to be false witnesses.

    I'm glad to hear though that you at least have the correct underlying texts in your Bible.

    God bless,

    Will
     
  18. HankD

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    Thank you brother Will for your honesty.

    HankD
     
  19. try hard

    try hard
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    My name is not Larry, but I can't help but answer some of your questions:

    Original scripture/autographs: NO
    Any Translation: YES

    Yes, it is to be called scripture. If it wasn't to be called scripture, then the Kjv is not scripture.

    What comes to most people's mind is that God "breathed" into the author's of the New and Old Testament that which he wanted them to write down, not that they are floating around in the air.
     
  20. Will J. Kinney

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    Try hard writes: "One last question, Larry. If Scripture is inspired of God, can it be in error?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Original scripture/autographs: NO
    Any Translation: YES

    So, Try hard, you don't think a translation can be inspired and without error, right? Where did you get this erroneous idea? Certainly not from the Bible.

    Can a Translation be Inspired?

    I am frequently told by modern bible version proponents that no translation can be inspired and that only the originals were inspired. This may be what they learned in seminary or from some other Bible teacher they happen to admire, but is it the truth?

    Most Christians will affirm that the Bible is our rule of faith and practice. It is a little self contradictory to stand in the pulpit and say the word of God is inspired, when in his heart the pastor knows he is not referring to any book here on this earth that people can hold in their hands and believe. He really should say what he believes - that the word of God WAS inspired at one time but we no longer have it, so the best we can do is hope we have a close approximation of what God probably meant to tell us.

    It also seems a bit inconsistent to say he believes the originals were inspired, when he has never seen them, they never were together in one single book and they no longer exist anyway. How does he know they were inspired? He accepts this by faith. Yet he seems to lack the faith to actually believe that God could do exactly what He said He would do with His words. God said He would preserve them and that heaven and earth would pass away but His words would not pass away.

    So, if the Bible itself is our rule of faith and practice, does it teach us a translation can be the inspired words of God? The answer is an emphatic Yes, it does many times.

    In the Book of Genesis, chapters 42-45, we have the record of Joseph's reunion with his brethren. That Joseph spoke Egyptian instead of Hebrew is evident by Genesis 42:23 "And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter." Joseph spoke in Egyptian yet his words are translated and recorded in another language, which turns out to be the inspired words of God.

    A translation does not have to be a "word for word" literal carry over into another language for it to be the inspired word of God. If we have the God given text and the God given meaning of that text communicated by way of another language, as I firmly believe we do in the King James Bible, it is still the inspired word of God.

    God's words are like water in a vessel. If the same water is poured out into another vessel, even a vessel of a different shape and size, and there is no addition of foreign matter or subtraction of substance, it is the same water.

    Again we see the same thing in Exodus chapters 4 through 14 where Moses confronts Pharoah and speaks with him face to face. Pharoah does not speak Hebrew, so Moses undoubtedly uses the Egyptian language in his verbal exchanges with him, yet the whole series of conversations is recorded in another inspired translation.

    In Acts 22 we see another clear example of how a translation can be the inspired words of God. Acts 21:40 tells us: "And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, HE SPAKE UNTO THEM IN THE HEBREW TONGUE, SAYING...". There then follows a lengthly sermon of 21 entire verses preached by Paul in the Hebrew tongue, yet not a word of this sermon is recorded in Hebrew but in inspired Greek. Was Paul's sermon inspired? Undoubtedly. But God also inspired the translation of this sermon into another language.

    If no translation can be inspired of God, then how do those who hold this unbiblical position explain all the Old Testament quotes found in the New Testament? They were originally inspired in Hebrew but then the Holy Ghost took these scores of verses and translated them into another inspired language. Not only that, but the Holy Ghost sometimes did not use a strictly literal word for word rendering. God sometimes adds a little more detail or explains further or makes a different application of the original verse to a new situation. This is how God does it and how the Bible itself teaches us about inspired translations.

    Which language did the Lord Jesus Christ speak while He was here on earth, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or a combination of the three? No one knows for sure, but we do know that He spoke to Paul in the Hebrew tongue yet His words were translated into Greek. "And when we were all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul. why persecutest thou me? It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." There then follows another four long verses all spoken in the Hebrew tongue by our Lord, yet none of it is recorded in Hebrew but is translated into another language.


    " And that from a child thou hast known the HOLY SCRIPTURES, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:15,16.

    It should be noted that Timothy did not have "the originals" yet what he had in his home is referred to as inspired scripture. In fact, in no case of all the references in the New Testament to the Scriptures that people read and believed, is it ever referring to "the originals only".

    So when you hear someone tell you with firm conviction: "No translation can be inspired. Only the originals were inspired" you should know that he didn't get this teaching out of the Bible or from God. If a professing Christian chooses not to believe in the possibility of an inspired translation, he does so contrary to many God given examples in the Bible itself.

    Will Kinney
     

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