Calvinism and the Rapture

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Sapper Woody, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody
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    I know this is a debate forum, but I am not trying to start a debate. I personally am nonCal and a pre-tribber. But I was wondering if all Cals hold a position other than preTrib, because of the verse that talks about "if possible would receive the elect" (paraphrase from memory). This is talking about a time after the rapture according to preTrib.



    So, out of curiosity, can you be a Cal and a preTribber?
     
  2. DHK

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    John MacArthur is a Calvinist who is a pre-trib, dispensationalist.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Arminian. Post trib. PreMill.

    So that text fits perfectly.
     
  4. Sapper Woody

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    Just saw I put "received" instead of "deceived" in my OP. But I think you guys knew what I meant.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Dr. Bob I believe!
     
  6. kyredneck

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    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24
     
  7. JamesL

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    In my opinion, a phrase like PreTrib Calvinist would be an oxymoron. Here's why:

    Calvinism stems from Covenant Theology, which is starkly opposed to the Dispensational view of a PreTrib rapture.

    The idea in Dispensationalism is that of God will remove the Church, so that He can reinstate His "program" with the nation of Israel (I don't like the word "program" btw)

    But in Covenant Theology, the church is a continuation of God's covenants of times past, including those with Israel. That's one reason a Calvinist believes OT saints were regenerated.

    The church is either distinct or it's not. Pretty black and white.

    Those like MacArthur are holding two conflicted ideas simultaneously by trying to categorize one as Soteriology and the other as Eschatology.

    But Eschatology is one aspect of Soteriology. Old Testament "salvation" looked to a finality when God would establish a forever kingdom of righteousness. And that's what New Testament "salvation" looks to as a finality also.

    This Eschatological salvation is what saints of all times have hoped for.

    The Calvinist and Dispensationalist are at odds Eschatologically speaking, because the entirety of their Soteriologies are at odds. It's logically impossible to have one view of the covenants, yet embrace the opposing view as it relates to the finality of the covenants
     
  8. OldRegular

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    You do realize, don't you, that the first inroads of pre-trib-dispensationalism in this country were made in the Presbyterian Churches.

     
  9. BobRyan

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    By that definition I am a Calvinist.
     
  10. JamesL

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    I've said a hundred times that Calvinists are nothing but Arminians in disguise
     
  11. JamesL

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    Doesn't really matter. Protestantism started to get really muddled back in the mid-1800s, and everybody was trying to "restore" the first century church. Millerites, Mormons, Adventists, Russellites, you name it.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    End result....."freak churches "
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Well which came first?
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Amen:applause:
     
  15. JamesL

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    They came out of Rome together
     
  16. JamesL

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    Yes, but they all had their roots in mainstream Protestantism. My only point there was that not everything which cropped up within Protestantism was in keeping with Protestant doctrine
     
  17. DHK

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    Your URL leads to a site by Earnest Reisinger. No wonder you are confused and have such a hatred for dispenationalists and others with like views! Do you know anything about this man? You should read up on him.
    From:
    http://calvinistflyswatter.blogspot.ca/2008/02/reisinger-biography-reviewed.html

    Note how early on how this man was zealous for the Lord; how evangelistic he was.
    He lost his zeal for the Lord. But how? The article continues:
    What a sad turn of events in this man's life who used to be zealous for the Lord, and now was zealous toward infant baptism and other like doctrines.
     
  18. OldRegular

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    Childish nonsense. You brans anyone who disagrees with Darby's pre-trib-dispensationalism as confused and full of hate! Childish nonsense. I realize you would love to deny I am saved by the Grace of God but you fear getting banned. You come as close as you can anyhow. Frankly DHK I could care less what you think about me or my Faith.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    I think the chicken came first!
     
  20. DHK

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    I was pointing out your source OR, and said nothing about you.
    Look at the difference in Reisinger's life:
    He was saved by reading a tract--was labeled as an Arminian believer, and was a zealous soul-winner reaching others for Christ with a heart for the Lord.

    Then he was introduced to Presbyterian Calvinism.
    He became an ardent defender of pedobaptism or infant baptism, a doctrine that Baptists fight against.

    This is one of the authorities that you often quote if I remember correctly.
    It is sad to see a life so mixed up and confused, one who was once zealous for the Lord and then a defender of Presbyterian infant baptism.
    I trust you would have agreed with that much and not have defended the Presbyterian infant baptism.
     

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