Calvinism, Arminianism, Free Grace, easy believism, Lordship Salvation

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by AresMan, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. AresMan

    AresMan
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    Which of these terms apply to you and why? Note, you can choose more than one, but some are probably obviously mutually exclusive. [​IMG]
     
  2. timothy27

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    I am Reformed Sovereigntist ie Calvinist
     
  3. Andy T.

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    Calvinist with a soft(er) L; probably in between the Free Grace and Lordship position, leaning towards Lordship.

    What do you mean by "easy-believism"? That can be a loaded term. Some see it as a derogatory term, while some FG'ers actually wear it as a badge of honor.
     
  4. 4His_glory

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    I could be accused of being Calvinist in my soteriolgy. Why? Because the Bible shows us the Sovereignty of God in salvation.
     
  5. webdog

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    I hate to align myself 100% with any "set" doctrine, but I would be more FGT.
    Easy Believism can be an oxyomoron, as with our sin nature, we resist change. It's also never "easy" to walk as a christian. I would think this phrase means how simple the plan of salvation really is.
    Lordship is too calvinistic for me, as it denies the ability of man to have faith unless it is given as a gift.
    Arminianism is too free will for me. Does not support OSAS.
    Calvinism in my opinion makes God out to be a monster, a liar, partial, the author and cause of all sin and evil. OSAS is dependant on works and persevering to the end.
     
  6. ascund

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    Hi webdog

    Really? I read MacArthur's book "Faith Works." I thought Lordship salvation was that one had to believe in Jesus as Lord. No simple intellectual assent. Belief must be accompanied by faithful service to the Lord.

    While I agree with faithful service, I hold that anything beyond Jesus' illustration of the LOOK in the brazen serpent example is WORKS.

    I would put lordship salvation right beside the CoC demand for water baptism. Both are heresy.

    Otherwise, I like your next comment:
    Calvinism in my opinion makes God out to be a monster, a liar, partial, the author and cause of all sin and evil.[/quote] Preach on!


    But I certainly disagree with your last comment
    Whoa! OSAS has nothing to do with works. It depends totally upon God's faithfulness. You have given the Calvinistic definition of perseverance.

    Q: How do you know you were elected?
    A: You have works.

    OSAS and Perseverance are only marginally similar. OSAS depends on God's faithfulness to His promises; Perseverance claims in theory to depend on God but in practice it depends on self-righteousness.

    Lloyd
     
  7. webdog

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    Lloyd, you misunderstood. This should have been read as one...
    I was stessing the calvinistic definition of perseverance. I believe in OSAS by God's grace only, no works. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  8. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Aresman;
    I don't believe you covered them all. Actually you only coverd two. Calvinism and Aminianism both have Catholic backgrounds. I'm not part of the reformation in any form because I don't believe you can get good fruit from a rotten tree.
    Luk 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    I believe in and worship the Lord Jesus Christ. This makes me a Christian.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  9. Joanna

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    I believe the Doctrines of Grace. TULIP then, but I don't like the label Calvinism, (paedobaptism) as I've had too much to do with Hyper-Calvinism in the past.
    I guess that OSAS stands for "once saved,always saved"? I would say that believers peservere and show they are saved through holy living as the book of James clearly teaches. So then Christ must be Lord of our life, I believe He is Lord & King of our lives before He is Saviour.
     
  10. dale kesterson

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    Calvinist. Sad how it is misrepresented, misapplied, misinterpreted, misunderstood... However, I am not ashamed of the Gospel.

    SDG,

    dale
     
  11. AresMan

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    Ok. great. Now, can you please tell me what does "holy living" mean. What does Christ as "Lord of our life" mean? I hear these phrases a lot, but no one is specific on what exactly it means. If I can't know what that means, how can I know that I really have made Christ "Lord of my life"? How can I have absolute 100% assurance of salvation, if I must make Jesus "Lord of my life" and not know exactly and specifically what that means? Assurance of salvation then seems like a hazy, foggy, "feels like it" kind of thing that, no one can ever be completely certain about until one's deathbed.
    Is Christ "Lord of your life"? If so, how do you know this? If He is, please tell me how, so that I can know that I am saved also.
    Of course, I know 100% that I am saved. I am not trying to belittle holy living and good works in any way. I just want clear cut distinction between justification and sanctification.
     
  12. Joanna

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    Actually we don't make Christ Lord of our life; He already is! But do we own Him as such and obey His Word? Such as 1 Peter 1:14 ...not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:... Titus 2:1 -13....teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;.... all the exhortations in the Word really.
    Not that obeying commandments saves us, but that would show our sincerity. In order to have assurance we have to examine ourselves by the Bible, not other people.
    The way I see it justification is when God sees us as perfectly sinless for Christ's sake; it takes place outside of us, happens only once when we are saved. Sanctification is us becoming more holy through the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. It takes place inside of us and is an ongoing, never complete till death.
    Much more could be said, but that is all the time I have for now. [​IMG]
     
  13. AresMan

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    Yes. We should do this. I definitely agree. ...
    I couldn't agree more. The trouble is, I see a lot of people questioning others' salvation almost based upon the standards they have set up in their own lives: emphasizing some aspects of spiritual maturity and ignoring some sins that they have in their own lives.
    Amen! I agree with this 100%. Sanctification is ongoing until you die, but does that mean it is guaranteed to be an indispensible upward slope. There are likely ups and downs (which we should try not to let happen), but it is still consistent. True assurance for me is not looking at the rollercoaster of my emotions and my sanctification; it is looking back at my justification and knowing what I believe about what Jesus has already done on the Cross.
     
  14. Joanna

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    I don't think assurance is a constant thing, at least in my experience, when sin enters the door, assurance jumps out the window.
     
  15. AresMan

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    This is what gives me 100% assurance. This is what I pretty much think about every day. This is why I have a smile on my face. This is why I want to please God and enables me to do so out of love.
     
  16. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Aresman;
    Holy living is the imitation of Christ.The constant pursuance of righteousness. The striving to be as much like Christ as we can possibly be. It is the works after Salvation and not works for Salvation. It is our obediance to His comandments.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  17. ascund

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    Hey ILUVLIGHT

    What a great comprehension of the distinction between justification and sanctification!

    Salvation entails both justification and sanctification. Some of the less enlightened that have lots of posts simply with to misunderstand the two as being a blend. While they are inseparable, they are nevertheless parallel and distinct.

    It appears that it is best to know the positive rather than nit noid some negative.
    Lloyd
     
  18. Jarthur001

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    Its easy to believe...even Satan and his devils believe there is a God.


    What Satan will not do is WORSHIP God.
    What Satan will not do is repent and turn from his way to Gods way.
    What Satan will not do is Give up all other things in life and follow God, Showing God that he is Lord.

    But...Satan believes in God and even talks with God.


    In Christ...James
     
  19. ascund

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    Hey Jarthur001

    The talk about Satan and his devils always bugs me. It is usually taken out of context. Jesus came and died for humans. Satan and his devils do not have the chance to be saved.

    They have always believed that Jesus is Lord but wilfully rejected Him. They are outside God's plan of redemption and should not even be mentioned in any such discussion.

    Lloyd
     
  20. Jarthur001

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    Hey Lloyd,


    This is true. Yet it shows that the word as we use it...."believe"..is not the same as what the Bible means. I use this point for it is used in the Bible that the devils also believe as if to say.."big deal". Yet as you say above they (the devils) will not repent.

    When man calls God His God, man should then act as if he is God, and change his sinful ways. The so called "easy believe" does not teach one must repent. I feel this is wrong, for they are doing no more then a devil by just say "i believe in God".


    In Christ...James
     

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