Calvinism + Arminianism = Fullerism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Here is an interesting piece done by a PB Author in an attempt to explain what Fullerism is.....

    Excerpt:

    Calvinism + Arminianism = Fullerism

    If you are not familiar with Fullerism, or wonder how Calvinism + Arminianism = Fullerism, then this article will attempt to explain this little known doctrine which has wrought great havoc on the churches of God. For our purposes we will define Calvinism as believing in Particular Redemption and Arminianism as believing in the General Atonement.

    If you are a believer in Particular Redemption you may ask yourself, “How is it possible to combine Particular Redemption with the General Atonement? Are they not mutually exclusive?” The answer is found with a man named Andrew Fuller.


    If you care to read more, here is the link.

    http://www.oldschoolbaptist.org/Articles/Calvinism.Arminianism.Fullerism.htm
     
  2. padredurand

    padredurand
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    The brush guy?
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    did they have brushes back in the day?:smilewinkgrin:
     
  4. JonC

    JonC
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    You do realize, of course, that the only way this formula works is if one accepts the definitions provided (which are a bit off) and ignores quite a bit of history. “Fullerism” as defined here by the extent of the atonement existed prior to Fuller and within post-Dort “orthodox” Calvinism; perhaps the author of the article would have benefited from going back to Dort rather than starting so late in the game to make his point. But as propaganda, the article is sufficient.
     
  5. Jerome

    Jerome
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    Andrew Fuller Center at SBTS Louisville:

    http://www.andrewfullercenter.org/about/

     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Maybe we ought to avoid all the isms and just be a child of God.
     
  7. Rippon

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    EW&F, the Fullerism namedropper in countless content-free posts is finally addressing the subject. Of course he falls short, but at least he has finally made the attempt.
     
  8. padredurand

    padredurand
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    Childism. Write a book about it and I can guarantee at least one copy will be sold in the Mountain states.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    For once I agree with you:thumbs:
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Well if you are an expert on the subject why don't you expound on it.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Makes fine rapping paper.:laugh:
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    So this is an endorcement from Southern Baptists? Aren't they the modern missionary Baptists the 1st author describes ?
     
  13. JonC

    JonC
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    I’m no expert…therefore have no expertise. But I do have some observations:

    “When Christ was offered freely to every man, and one received him, another rejected him, then by the mystery of election and reprobation was revealed, the reason why some received him being, because God gave them a heart, which to the rest he gave not; but, in point of offering of Christ, we must be general, without having respect to election.” John Preston (1651).

    “You know there are two sorts of such as oppose Arminianism. One that is the high sort, and the other the moderate sort…We who are of this sort, do hold Election to be of particular persons…but Redemption we hold to be universal” John Humfrey (1692)

    Again, I’m no expert…just making a simple observation. The above quotes sound a lot like the article's version of “Fullerism.” But they are from Calvinists (I doubt anyone, even here, would deny that Preston and Humfrey were Calvinists…but who knows). What I may lack in expertise I make up for in math. Both of these men died well before Andrew Fuller was born.

    The other problem is the author's insistence that other's follow his logical conclusions (sorta a Mr. Spock kinda guy, I suppose). He makes a statement and says "logically" as if his is the only logical option. What is probably closer to the truth is that cannot see the logic in another's position. The discrepancy is...logically...his.
     
    #13 JonC, Oct 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  14. Rippon

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    Spurgeon called Andrew Fuller "the greatest theologian" of his century. But Spurgeon himself is linked with Fuller as being tinged with Arminianism by a number of Primitive Baptists.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    So what? Then most Calvinists have Arminian tendencies farther back than Fuller....the point is that they do....so if Fuller gets the credit, he probably did more to push the movement along than his predisessors (sic).

    Ford didn't invent the automobile either but he holds a prominent place in advancing that industry.
     
  16. Rippon

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    In the wonderful book by Tom Nettles called By His Grace And For His Glory he captures some of Fuller's doctrine.

    "According to Fuller, men in every age bring the same objection to the doctrine of sovereign election. On the one hand the pseudo-Calvinists, as Fuller named them, allowed sovereignty to eliminate man's duty and responsibility, since he is unable to believe without sovereign grace. Therefore, men should not be called upon and exhorted to repentance and faith. It is a matter of sober irony that the hyper- (or pseudo-) Calvinists ran arm in arm with the Arminians in this; for though the idea is expressed in different ways, both groups assume that man has no duty apart from grace. The Arminians made universal grace the ground for universal duty to believe, thus denying by implication the unmerited character of grace. Fuller spoke against both of these by affirming two truths :the universal duty of all men to repent and believe, thus rendering the universal dispersion of the gospel necessary; and the absolutely unmerited and sovereign character of grace, thus ascribing salvation solely to the will of God." (p.118)
     
  17. JonC

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    More to the point is that the author of the article is ignorant of the fact that those are not “Arminian tendencies.” The rift that became Arminianism was not centered upon the scope of the Atonement, and those who make that connection do so dishonestly (or to antagonize). As such the article is propaganda - it lacks integrity but may help Primitive Baptists “feel good” about their position.

    Looking at the Humfrey quote it is difficult to miss that he has a higher view of election than does the Primitive Baptist author in your first post. Humfrey directly addresses the issue (God electing) which emphasizes the relationship between Father and Son in the redemption plan. If the author believes this to be “back-door Arminianism” or “Arminian tendencies,” then perhaps he simply does not understand…which is fine. His error is in failing to comprehend the doctrines of other people, not his own. He has found ground to stand upon, so let him stand (even if it is in ignorance).
     
    #17 JonC, Oct 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2014
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Thats one heck of an accusation to make....why dont you confront the author directly?
    Again if it was me personally, I would not....not if I perceived the article to be in error. I would want to confront him directly & make my position known.
     
  19. JonC

    JonC
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    Why? I doubt he cares about my position. I only told you because you asked.

    I could write him a letter....and send a tract
     
    #19 JonC, Oct 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2014
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Now there ya go:laugh:

    I guess its a question of credibility with "ME"....see if you are not a man of complete conviction (to me at any rate) you are just wasting time. At least this guy bothered to get his point of view published (so that the public could read & digest) it. But that's your call.

    Old adage, "Test yourself every day, because if you don't, its just a wasted day"......Oorah!
     

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