Calvinism is Catholicism if I'm wrong prove it

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by romanbear, Feb 18, 2003.

  1. romanbear

    romanbear
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    quote:
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    Originally posted by romanbear:
    I don't understand how one can openly claim Calvinism when it is Catholicism with out a doubt
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    I don't understand how one can keep repeating this false statement. You should know better. Calvinism is defended from Scripture, whether you agree with the Scripture or not. It is most assuredly not Catholic. Get over it and dispute real arguments. This kind of post is unnecessary.
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    I disagree with you Larry Calvinism is Catholicism it was created by the founder of the Catholic Church.I also disagree that my statement is false and am challenging you to prove it is false.I don't have to get over it. prove me wrong if you can....
    Romanbear
     
  2. sturgman

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    The first church is known in Church History 101 as the catholic church (Church universal) Not Roman catholic. So therefore as we follow church history, all sects of the Christian church are a branching off of the catholic church. Under Augustine and Luther it was a theocracy, so the government and the church are one. So anything from that generation or period would be from the catholic church, including the bible. Would you say that the bible can be trusted Romanbear? After all, Jerome was a catholic preist? Can we trust such a catholic device?

    Come on Romanbear, you are not going to bring calvinism to such a petty argument. We might as well go back to splitting the church over the color of carpet.

    Unless you are catholic yourself, these men who you see as scoundrals, started the reformation, and if you call yourself Baptist, or any other form of prodistant church, you owe a lot to these guys.

    Thanks for your "thoughts"

    sturgman
     
  3. romanbear

    romanbear
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    Hi Sturgman;
    What you just said is untrue that the Catholic Church was the first.It wasn't started until the 3 rd century so what you are saying is the world went without a church for 300 hundred years. I do not owe the Catholic Church or Augustine anything I only owe Christ my Love and devotion...
    A quote from you;
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    Come on Romanbear, you are not going to bring calvinism to such a petty argument. We might as well go back to splitting the church over the color of carpet.
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    You exaggerate what you think is truth. The Calvinist have done the same to Arminians have they not. I'm not Arminian I'm a Born Again Christian Who doesn't owe squat to any Church denomination.Calvinist on the other hand have been Catholics all along.Prove me wrong

    Romanbear
     
  4. sturgman

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    Romanbear,

    Pick up a church history book. Catholic was not a man, it was a term. A term used for the first church all together. There were different churches across the map. So were they all different bodies? No they were one, they were the church, the church universal, the catholic church. From there they brought in all sorts of bad theology, and it became a power thing. (I am simplifying it for you) So the church at the time of Augustine and Luther was so corrupt that Luther nailed his 95 thesis on the door of the church, and reformation was started. Without this happening, we would all still be catholic today.

    So you see, I did prove you wrong. Your ignorance of church history is no excuse. Nor is it a win for your side.
     
  5. romanbear

    romanbear
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    Hi Sturgman; [​IMG]
    I have read Church history and the Catholic Churches version of it.Just not true.The Catholic Church Did not come into the picture until Augustine and Constantine came along and started twisting scripture and using it to govern the people.Religon a very powerful thing. It all depends on, if you trust the very people who Crucified Christ or, the Christians they persecuted, doesn't it?. [​IMG]
    Romanbear
     
  6. npetreley

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    Church history

    http://bethanychurch.jesusanswers.com/history.htm

    http://www.americanchurch.org/history.htm

    The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.
    http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/catholic.html

     
  7. romanbear

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    Hi npetreley;
    all this history written after more than 500 years after the death and ressurection of Christ.
    Romanbear
     
  8. romanbear

    romanbear
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    Npetreley;
    The first church wasn't ever called Catholic in the Bible.It was called the Church of Christ or the Church of God.Catholic is a Roman name has nothing to do with Christian.
    Romanbear
     
  9. npetreley

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    If you had read the above, you'd see that the word Catholic is from the Greek (katholikos, meaning universal). As I posted above, "The word catholic was first used c.110 to describe the Church by St. Ignatius of Antioch." It could have been coined earlier, since some think Ignatius may have died as early as 98.
     
  10. Ray Berrian

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    The writings of Augustine plus the Latin Vulgate were two sources that molded Calvin's thoughts into what he expressed in his "Institutes of the Christian Religion." Fluent in Latin, Calvin had long used that corrupted translation of the Bible, which, since its composition by Jerome at the beginning of the fifth century, was the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church. It was redeclared by the Council of Trent 1546 when Calvin was 37 years old. More than that, its influence reached into Protestant circles.

    'For more than 1,000 years the Vulgate dominated all of Western Europe. All commentaries were based on the Vulgate text and preachers based their sermons on it.' (David Schaff, "Our Father's Faith and Ours" p. 172.

    Samuel Berger called the Vulgate "the most vulgarized and basterdized text imaginable.' (Dr. Samuel Fisk, "Calvinistic Paths Retraced" Biblical Evangelism Press, 1985, p. 68.

    Fisk reminds us: Well-known examples of far-reaching errors include the whole system of Catholic "penance," drawn from the Vulgate's "do penance" . . . when the Latin should have followed the Greek{meaning to}---repent. Likewise the word "sacrament" was a mis-reading from the Vulgate of the original word for 'mystery.' Even more significant, perhaps, was the rendering of the word 'presbyter' -elder as "priest." (Samuel Fisk, "Calvinistic Paths Retraced", Biblical Evangelism Press, 1985, p. 70-75.

    While the 'catholic,universal, saved and elect church' goes back to the apostles, somewhere in the third or fourth century the Roman Catholic Church started to write down their 'ex cathedra' dogma as each 'apostolic bishop of Rome/holy See added his human ideas.
     
  11. Primitive Baptist

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    If Calvinism is Catholicism, why are Roman Catholics Arminians? The only Catholic doctrine being advocated on this board is Arminianism. When time shall be no more, hell shall enlarge herself one last time to receive Arminianism and all her children. :eek:
     
  12. Ray Berrian

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    Romanbear,

    You said a lot in the last sentence of your post dated February 18 at 4:25 p.m. Your statement started saying, 'It all depends on, if you trust . . . '

    The Vatican not only has an alleged, spiritual mission and influence, but also a political agenda. Have you noticed the Iraqi ambassador met with a cardinal and the ambassador would not take a question from an Israeli journalist. If I recall correctly the Iraqi representative was sent home 'on his flying carpet.'
     
  13. romanbear

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    Hi P.B.
    Truth hurts doesn't it.You call all who oppose you an Arminian. [​IMG] I'm not insulted by your statement.I think it's funny
    Romanbear
     
  14. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Primitive Baptist,

    You seem angry; I guess the light finally shimmered in on your soul. We are merely pointing out that Calvinism has its roots deep in the soil of the Vatican.

    As far as the Catholic Church goes, it is true that they, are coming around to a more Arminian theological view. This means their is lingering hope for you and your brethren.

    Has Christ delegated to you some people to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment or the Judgment Seat of Christ? I thought I read that the Son would judge all of us whether Calvinistic or Arminian. [John 5:22-23] 'For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father which hath sent Him.'
     
  15. npetreley

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    Again, it is an empty and ridiculous argument to blame Calvinism on errors in the Vulgate. Luther vigorously waged war against free will and defended predestination/election often by refuting the accuracy of the Vulgate and Jerome. Since Luther's views preceded Calvin (and Augustine preceded both), it is impossible to say that Calvinism exists due to errors in the Vulgate.
     
  16. romanbear

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    Hi Ray; [​IMG]
    I believe the pope could be the Antichrist spoken of in Revelations.If not Him someone who will occupy his office.Keep an eye on him my friend he is an untrustworthy individual. His office will be responsible for the 7 year peace treaty. The last one world Church will be a combination of Catholic and Islam the Pope has all but signed the deal.
    The Latin vulgate it's true what you posted and is what Calvin Augustine based there theories on no doubt .It's difficult to get Calvinist to see that Catholic History is not the only history available about the Church.They all seem to want to refer me to it. Guess they all went to Catholic Schools or maybe Calvinist Schools same thing.
    Romanbear [​IMG]
     
  17. npetreley

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    Why do I get the feeling someone is going to figure out how to make the name John Calvin work out to be 666?
     
  18. Monergist

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    Romanbear,
    There have been thousands upon thousands who have lost their lives because they embraced the truths that you so eagerly attack. You need to go read the acccounts of Protestants and Puritans who suffered under the viciousness of the Roman Catholic church. A great host of these were calvinstic in their belief. Did they die because they were one and the same as their prosecutors? To suggest so goes beyond absurdity.
     
  19. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    npetreley,

    Jerome and Augustine were contemporaries. Jerome wrote the Latin Vulgate Version. Its bad translation of the Greek was passed on during the Dark Ages. Calvin studied Augustinian theology. Calvin copied Augustine's theological concepts as confirmed by Drs. B.B. Warfield, Sproul, and Piper, eminent Calvinists. If you don't understand this maybe Romanbear can offer you a better expression of Contemporary, Systematic and or Church History as to the origin of Catholic and Calvinistic theology. Try to connect the dots.
     
  20. romanbear

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    Hi timothy; [​IMG]
    Your question;
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    Romanbear,
    There have been thousands upon thousands who have lost their lives because they embraced the truths that you so eagerly attack. You need to go read the acccounts of Protestants and Puritans who suffered under the viciousness of the Roman Catholic church. A great host of these were calvinstic in their belief. Did they die because they were one and the same as their prosecutors? To suggest so goes beyond absurdity.
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    You are wrong to assume Calvinist some how innocent.They weren't.
    Calvin had no special cornner on the reformation and to suggest so is very ignorant.Calvin did not start the reformation.Some feel that this was Luther but I don't think so there have always been those who were called protestants just given another name "Heretics" I believe.Why do Calvinist think there are only two views to scripture.Is it because there minds are so limited like there belief in atonement.Let's don't forget the hundreds of people who were put to death at the hands of Calvin himself as made up Pope of Geneva and the several men who followed in his foot steps.Putting to death all who did not agree with Calvin
    No better than the Catholics in my view.
    Romanbear [​IMG]
     

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