Calvinism more evangelistic?

A book

I believe in limited atonement to those who trust in Jesus, not everyone will be saved even though this is God desire, but only those who trust in Jesus will be.

Have you read this book?

Spurgeon v. Hyper-Calvinism:
The Battle for Gospel Preaching
by Iain H. Murray

 

I have read Spurgeon's own works. Why do I need to read what someone else says about them? Spurgeon was no Hyper, or "anti evangelistic" Calvinist, but he was indeed a normal five point Calvinist (like all of the Calvinists on this board; I am not aware of any hyper Calvinists). In fact, John Calvin and Martin Luther were Spurgeon's personal heroes..he had bronze busts of them made, and the highlight of his life was preaching while wearing Calvin's robes, from Calvin's old pulpit...

 

Scripture

I read "All of Grace" by Spurgeon.

I read all the Holy Bible many times and all these commentaries and still couldn't understand the scripture.

After reading that book I realized it is all of grace. After reading the Gospel again. God opened my eyes and tears road down my face. God changed my life.

Any work from man is incomplete and still needs to mature and grow from the word of God the only complete work of God is found in scripture. The scripture that is given before is the reason I believe what I believe. Calvin is an incomplete work. I have given the scripture why.

Spurgeon did bring many by the Gospel message.

He said once it doesn't matter if you don't know you are the elect or not, you just come and He will in no wise cast you out.


It was Calvinist teachers that brought me to read the scripture and learn, and I can finally agree with them, but there is more to it.

 

And Spurgeon says what he preached is the same thing Calvin preached. Having read both, I agree with him.

Spurgeon never said a non-elect could come. Actually, what he said is something like "Do you right now trust in Christ for your salvation? Then you are elect." In other words, all can come, but if you come, that proves you were already elect. Same thing all five point Calvinists, including Calvin, believed.

There is really not. Surely a man's exposition cannot cover the breadth of scripture, but what is articulated is complete truth.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=dYIsFVUmpMcC&pg=PA199&lpg=PA199&dq=Spurgeon+many+people+wish+to+know+if+they+are+among+God%27s+elect&source=bl&ots=MMR2ZIHzzW&sig=8rO7S-EUm8s0B5zbdU2EpXtgtSk&hl=en&ei=SJv0TITJDYX7lwfgiOGcBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Spurgeon%20many%20people%20wish%20to%20know%20if%20they%20are%20among%20God%27s%20elect&f=false

That is the close I found on the internet. I know I read something Where Surgeon said it doesn't matter if you don't know that if you are not the elect or not just come to Him and He will not cast you out. Don't make excuses like I got to bury my father, or I am not good enough, let me change my life first or any excuses. You just come to Jesus and He will not cast you out.

I do not have nothing against Calvin, I agree with him to a point. Read the scripture and find out for yourself scripture he did not include when he has come to his points. Men have been cut out from election for unbelief. So they had to be there in the first place. Chosen from the foundation of the world, but cut for unbelief. These same people can be grafted back in if they do not continue in their unbelief. We who wasn't His possession ( Israel) was included with the believing Jews when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed. Those who trust in Christ is His possession now praise God, that those unbelievers will go where they belong.

I have already given the scripture, but some want mens words

 

This is one of the greatest complaints I have about Calvinism. They just can't see the error of this doctrine because of the so-called great preachers from the past.

I would never knowlingly join a reformed church!

 

Read my Bible in my personal time? How about I do whatever I want, and you worry about what you need to do, and not me?

Pasting scripture a "worthless waste of time". I'm glad you said that and not me.

Psalms has freedom to post whatever he would like within the bounds of this forum.

Imagine you starting yet another argument. How rare.

By the way, do you run your mouth like this in real life, or just behind your monitor?

I should have listened to "don't feed the trolls." But only you would have seen my post as troll food, and in turn, feast upon it.

Don't waste your time with me, nor will I with you. I've seen your abrasive, caustic, know it all attitude too many times already in way too many posts, and knew immediately you are one to avoid.

Also, this is not a "debate site" formally nor soley, it's a forum, so it's much more than that. And it's not "metal" it's "mettle" since you love to argue semantics, and just in general, like to argue.


Have a good day.

 

There seems to be a disconnect in some people's theology when it comes to the whole idea of God's election and with that the responsibility to preach the word in a convincing manner.

By human logic, it seems that preaching to lost persons in a convicting and convincing manner is in error if God is doing "all the work of salvation" and "salvation is for the elect only." The reasoning says, "Why bother preaching at all, because God has it all worked out anyway." Yet, clearly, Calvinists preach! Some of the most influential preachers down through the ages have been those who held the doctrines of grace in a manner consistent with what is called Calvinism.

But, why? Why do these preachers preach like they do, if they "know" and "believe" that God is the author and finisher of our salvation?

Again, logically speaking, the reason most often given is that "God said so." And, indeed, He has. But along with that sentiment often comes the corollary in the minds of the Arminians that those preachers are "just going through the motions" because they "know" that God has already determined who will be saved.

And, yet the question remains in the mind of the Arminian, "Why? Why bother preaching so hard if preaching has nothing to do with God's election?" It just doesn't make sense to those who structure their entire theology on the basis of humans seeking God for salvation to see those who hold that God is the arbiter of salvation preaching the Word to lost persons.

So, the Arminian, faithful to the Scriptures seeks out a rational for preaching the Word, and easily finds it. The entirety of the OT is consumed with God's people striving to keep the Law. The NT shows a good many people doing likewise. It is easy to find biblical source material to bolster the position that WE need to come to God and that WE need to believe, and that WE need to live lives pleasing to God so as to be saved until WE are sanctified and glorified when finally, WE come into the presence of God and are vindicated for our great faith and practice. And WE can find all of that in the Scriptures and are satisfied with our position as being godly and righteous.

These faithful Arminian servants of God preach all the harder, work all the harder, and believe all the harder in order to save their own souls and reach lost souls with the good news of the gospel; but, they cannot fathom why a Calvinist would do the same, other than from that sense of duty explained above. Therein lies both the problem and the answer to that problem...

So, why does the Calvinist preach, teach, convince, convict, etc., like they do if God has already decreed the elect to salvation? Yes, in part, because God said so. That is true. Calvinists readily admit that they are commanded to preach, evangelize, and minister in the name of Jesus, and so they do. But there is another component that should be considered. The Calvinist also knows, based on God's promises in the Bible, that when they preach, teach, evangelize, and minister that God will grant a harvest, and so they are faithful to that Word.

But there is yet another component that is not often considered. God draws the sinner into salvation when the Holy Spirit can whisper with that still small voice, "Here this. This is truth!" And so, those who have truly become one with Christ through a spiritual re-birth have responded to God's effectual call, and the God who drew them, supplied the "co-incidence" (hyphenated for a reason), and confirmed in the heart of the sinner that they were hearing Truth, are justified in hearing God's truth proclaimed in all its glory!

For the sake of the kingdom, and as an abject worship of Almighty God, the Calvinist "goes" and "speaks persuasively" the "words of truth" of the gospel and the God who gives the Word, make the Word alive, and who seals the justified sinner is glorified!

How different this picture of God's actions in the heart and soul of a lost sinner than the picture that shows humans yet striving in an Old Testament fashion to live according to the tenets and laws of God! By grace we are saved, not of works, lest any man boast! So, while yes, one can find all the tenets of human will interacting with God in the Scriptures, that picture is incomplete and undeveloped in respect to God's New Covenant. It was always incomplete, which is why Paul and the writer of Hebrews both went to lengths to explain the faith of those who came before, elected into their positions by God, but who responded not by law, but by faith to God's election! The Law is our schoolmaster, showing us that we cannot come to God based on our efforts. The gospel shows us how, instead, God comes to us based on His efforts!

 

Amen to that.

We have no right to tell others what they can and can't post. How arrogant.

 

Much of what you take away from the "arminian" and contribute to the calvinist is also the view of the arminian and those who fall into the "neither" category. I don't believe "we are commanded to" should be the top priority, but love for others.

WE need to love others, WE do need to be faithful to the Gospel, and WE need to understand that WE are held accountable for this.

 

So you say that you embrace Calvinist doctrines then? :tonofbricks:

BTW, I don't disagree that WE need to do some things. I do disagree that what WE do is the basis for salvation, however. That's where the disconnect comes in.