Calvinism/origin of sin 2

The deivil

Our fight is against the devil who night and day accuse the brethren, not against God or each other. It is a bad thing where one side of a coin is placed face down and and the back side is only revealing the side they love to spread.

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Ephesians 6:
The Whole Armor of God

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[NU-Text reads rulers of this darkness.] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

 

The Angel did not teach God the best way to proceed. Do you really think that God hadn't already decreed what that Angel would say? God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and immutable. The angel simply said what he was destined to say from eternity past. God is never surprised and he doesn't learn from anyone. No plan is carried out that he didn't plan himself and put into motion.

Ezekiel 34:31 NIV
You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign LORD.'"

James doesn't deny that God decrees the temptation. He denies that God physically does the tempting. That is done by the man himself and by tempting spirits.

I am not accusing God of evil in any way, quite the contrary. As a matter of fact I am saying that God is sovereign, has decreed all things that will come to pass, is righteous and perfect and good, and that man is accountable for his own actions.

When certain people hear those things they place lables on God themselves. I don't. I worship him and believe he is great.

It is quite clear that the Lord has decreed not only the natural disasters but sins as well. As Acts 4 is clear that God decreed people commit the worst sin ever committed the crucifiction of the Son of God.

You are the one here that judges the sovereign God as something less than good. I claim the opposite.

I know that all of my loved ones and myself will come to grief indeed. It is God's good plan and my faith in him will not be shaken no matter what happens. He is my God and I am his child forever.

Proverbs 3:5-6 ESV
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.

 

I asked a simple question that does not need all of this diverting in order to be answered. If God has decreed something can stand or fall without Him needing to hold it up, it does not need to be held up.

 

You really thought my question was an "interrogation"? Really? :laugh:

I gave you my answer in the second part of my reply.

 

His decree.

If you maintain it must be held up, how is it accountable for falling when He lets it go? What choice does it have in standing or falling?

 

Not according to the creation account.

...and if God gives this "power"?

Based on your domino analogy, I do not.

Now... If you maintain it must be held up, how is it accountable for falling when He lets it go? What choice does it have in standing or falling?

 

I don't have the patience that Skandelon has. I've done the merry-go-round thing before. You are now "interrogating" me based on how you defined it

I asked you a simple question based on YOUR understanding...not mine. YOU should be able to support YOUR understanding of YOUR analogy. If you cannot do that, then just say so. If man is nothing but an inanimate domino that needs to be held up, and YOU maintain God removes His finger and allows it to fall, YOU should be able to tell us how the domino had a choice in the matter.

It's quite simple. It matters because you claim this is how it is. Now put your money where your keyboard is.

"An interrogation is when one person asks all the questions and another person is expected to do nothing but give answers."

Time to answer mine based on YOUR understanding and needing no further clarification on how I understand it.

 

Now you want a definition from me? Let's see, how long should I wait to accommodate this request? How about I just refer you to the thread I started on the subject which started with a full explanation of what I believe about this: HERE

I've never used this verbiage to describe what I believe and since you've yet to really define what you mean by some of these terms I cannot concede to such claims...

I'm usually pretty good in deciphering what people mean when asking a question, but I read this one several times and I honestly cannot figure out what you are attempting to ask. Can you reword the question? Sorry.

I agree that God has a purpose to accomplish in allowing evil to enter the world, but your use of the word "intends" is quite ambiguous because it at least connotes the idea that God takes pleasure or desires sin. It is these types of statements that get you into trouble...they are much to unclear and can be taken in ways not intended. This is why you should stick with the language of men like Edwards, IMO.

Letting him fall may be essential to him falling, but to believe as you do that it necessitates his falling does not follow, it is just presumed. You have no basis for such a belief. As Webdog pointed out, if man is some inanimate object, like a domino, the "letting go" is the direct and active work of the one doing the "letting." It would be like the man who controls the damn letting the water through to drown all the people in the city and defending himself by saying, "I didn't do it, the water did it, I just let it go." He is going to jail for obvious reasons.

Plus, in your system God doesn't just LET GO of Adam so that he will freely choose one path or the other, God DECREES the choice and even the INTENT of that choice. To even speak of the "letting go" is senseless in this scenario.

If I build a robot that is programmed to lie when asked a question, what point is there in speaking about my letting him lie? I didn't LET him lie, I programmed him to lie. I MADE him to LIE. There is nothing in your system which removes this conclusion with regard to God's creation of man and his decree of their sinful choices.