Calvinism, The Gospel, and Adrian Rogers

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by baptist4u, Feb 14, 2003.

  1. baptist4u

    baptist4u
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    First, I just want to say that I don't understand why "Calvinism" is even an issue in our churches today.I believe that if a person truly understands the 5-points of Calvinism, then he understands the true gospel.The issue in our churches today should be evangelism and missions. I don't understand how a man such as Rogers denies the fact that God is 100% responsible for salvation.I also want to add, for Rogers sake, that my favorite verse is John 3:16, if you study this verse it says more about Calvinism than I can ever say.
     
  2. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Where ya been Baptist4u, the Calvinists on this BBS took a vote and threw John 3:16 out or their bibles. They claim it does not say what it clearly says.
     
  3. sturgman

    sturgman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew, that isn't nice at all. What we do is look at the whole verse in context, instead if focusing a very closed view to the word "whosoever".

    If your point was to be mean because you don't have a point, you did good. If your point was that you truly think that, we have other concept which you have provided no verses for that we need to hit first. Just because we don't add to scripture does not mean we through some verses out.

    Love ya man,
    sturgman
     
  4. Rev. G

    Rev. G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very poor statement. Very poor.
     
  5. baptist4u

    baptist4u
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    I must say I don't know where I have been, but John 3:16 is still in my bible and I believe it with all my heart. I am sorry if some people do not give God all the credit when it comes to His saving grace.
     
  6. All about Grace

    All about Grace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    0
    Speaking of poor statements :rolleyes:

    No the SBC godfather is not a 5-pointer but neither should he be accused of denying God is responsible for salvation.

    Don't mess with the godfather [​IMG] ;)
     
  7. Jacob

    Jacob
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Come on...to say a guy like Adrian Rogers doesn't understand the Gospel and he doesn't believe God is 100% responsible for Salvation...gimme a break. Don't load the debate with these kinda comments. Wonderful Christians have disagreed about this subject for centuries and will continue to disagree. It's a legitimate in house debate.

    Jacob.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is absolutely out of line. No such vote was taken and the outcome would have been far different. Calvinists on this board have been firm in their affirmation of the truth of John 3:16. This was either a poor attempt at humor or a very lame attempt to prejudice the argument. Either way it is uncalled for and outside the lines of this forum.

    Clean it up.
     
  9. All about Grace

    All about Grace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yet saying Adrian Rogers does not believe salvation is of God is acceptable??????

    Consistency is a jewel.
     
  10. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    6
    Yet saying Adrian Rogers does not believe salvation is of God is acceptable??????

    Consistency is a jewel.
    </font>[/QUOTE]SBCbyGRACE,
    Don't waste your time, brother. The Calvinists here don't think twice about falsely attributing to non-Calvinists such beliefs as "salvation by works or effort", and then get in a hissy-fit when someone points out the "funky-mo-joe" Calvinists do to the Scriptures. :rolleyes:
     
  11. romanbear

    romanbear
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Baptist4you;
    Don't you think that you could be wrong in your belief of a man's idea of Christianity?. Are you really so confident in Calvinism that you believe that it is perfect.I'm a Baptist that agrees with Adrian Rodgers but not just Mr. Rodgers.The Bible,what it says with out further explanation.You see the Bible interprets it self. Read it just like any other book and stop trying to analyze it.This is the only way to see what scripture says truthfully.
    Romanbear
     
  12. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the present time there is room in the SBC for men like Adrian Rogers who represents the majority viewpoint and men like Al Mohler who represents the minority viewpoint.

    May it always be so regardless of the balance.
    :D
     
  13. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I understand you right, then amen and amen and amen (and a few more)! But I'a "amening" your sentiment on the gospel - I don't even know who Adrian Rogers is.
     
  14. Kiffin

    Kiffin
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Baptist4u said,

    I completely agree with you. Most of the zealous Calvinist attackers probably have never read a single Calvinist author and are usually ignorant of their Baptist forefathers beliefs and the fact that Calvinists such as Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield and William Carey were the pioneers of Evangelism and Missions. It was the Particular (Calvinist) Baptists who were at the forefront of Personal Evangelism and World Missions and not the General (Free Will) Baptists of England in our early years. I believe to many get their Calvinist streotypes from amateur theologians such as Dave Hunt. John 3:16 and Revelation 22:17 are my favorite verses and I don't know of any Calvinist, denying whosoever will may come.

    Before I became a Calvinist about 8 years ago, I was a attacker of it and the main reason was that I was ignorant of it, had read no Calvinist authors and based my views of Calvinism on the writings of the late Curtis Hudson, (Who was basically a Pelagian)and John R. Rice. Both of these men were either ignorant of Calvinism or were dishonest in their writings. I believe Rodgers is probably ignorant on the subject and his reading of Calvinism limited to reading Dave Hunt, Hershell Hobbs.
     
  15. All about Grace

    All about Grace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    0
    Without men such as Adrian Rogers, there would be no Mohler at SBTS. Rogers paved the way for the SBC resurgence. He is due much gratitude for his role.

    And I concur that the SBC has to be large enough for both camps. Both camps are necessary for balance.
     
  16. All about Grace

    All about Grace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    0
    So basically anyone who disagrees with your human perspective is either: a) uninformed, b) unread, or c) ignorant.

    You can rest assured that some of the leaders of the SBC who are not 5-pointers are also some of its most read scholars (such as Patterson or on a pastoral level -- Jerry Vines). And you can also rest assured that these men know their Baptist history (e.g., Patterson knows as much about Baptist history as any modern SBCer that I know).

    Please do not patronize those who disagree with your own perpective as being less intelligent than you or simply relying upon the work of men such as Dave Hunt.

    BTW, I have not stated where I stand on the Calvinistic issues. I just think it is very unwise to label someone who differs from me as being less intelligent or less informed than me.
     
  17. Brutus

    Brutus
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    SBCbyGrace; alright already,give it up and tell us exactly where you stand!
     
  18. baptist4u

    baptist4u
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am sorry for saying that Rogers does not give all the credit of salvation to God, but I would like to know why he is attacking people (Calvinist)that do give all the credit to God. I can't say that I fully understand the infinite wisdom of God nor can Rodgers, but I do know that God saves people according to His own will,pleasure,and for His purpose without having to have any reason or action on our part.
     
  19. All about Grace

    All about Grace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps Rogers is confronting the hyper-form of Calvinism that often stems from Calvinism itself. Perhaps Rogers is confronting the type of Calvinism which he battled in his formative years. Perhaps Rogers is just seeking to maintain a balance within God's sovereignty and man's freedom which cannot be dogmatically explained with a man-created philosophical system.

    Whatever the case, Adrian Rogers is a man of character and influence who deserves our utmost respect. We have the right to disagree with him w/o suggesting he is ignorant, misinformed, or preaching a gospel that deviates from the "true" gospel.

    We all need to be reminded that salvation does not work within the confines that we often place upon it. Perhaps the "true" gospel is not as complicated as we tend to make it.
     
  20. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I have never heard Adrian Rogers preach Calvin! Have you? He and Calvin may believe similarly about much of what the Scriptures say, but I'll bet he never once said "Calvin saves".

    Baptist4u, you see how easily the Calvinists are stirred up? They even declare they strongly adhere to John 3:16 So long it is in context, then they attempt to establish the context as being outside Jesus discussion with Nicodemus verses 1-21. They want to bring in all the yadda yadda yadda about the elect and interpret the word "whosoever" as being only the elect. Then they take it even further by declaring that man does not have the capacity to believe and thereby alter his own behavior based on what he believes. I could go on, but you get the drift. It is a new gospel they espouse.
     

Share This Page

Loading...