Calvinism - TULIP - "I"rresistible Grace

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jdlongmire, Jun 16, 2008.

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  1. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire
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    Irresistible Grace (or the Efficacious Call of the Spirit)

    Although the general outward call of the gospel can be, and often is, rejected, the special inward call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those to whom it is made. This special call is not made to all sinners, but is issued to the elect only. The Spirit is in no way dependent upon their help or cooperation for success in his work of bringing them to Christ. It is for this reason that Calvinists speak of the Spirit’s call and of God’s grace in saving sinners as being “efficacious,” “invincible,” or “irresistible.” The grace which the Holy Spirit extends to the elect cannot be thwarted or refused; it never fails to bring them to true faith in Christ.

    The Spirit Saves

    Romans 8:14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-13; 1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 Corinthians 12:3; 2 Corinthians 3:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18; 1 Peter 1:1-2.

    The Spirit Gives New Birth

    Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 1:12-13; John 3:3-8; John 5:21; 2 Corinthians 5:17-18; Galatians 6:15; Ephesians 2:5; Ephesians 2:10; Colossians 2:13; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 5:4.

    The Spirit Reveals the Secrets of God

    Matthew 11:25-27; Matthew 13:10-11; Matthew 13:16; Matthew 16:15-17; Luke 8:10; Luke 10:21; John 6:37; John 6:44-45; John 6:64-65; John 10:3-6; John 10:16; John 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 1:17-18.

    The Spirit Gives Faith and Repentance

    Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18; Acts 13:48; Acts 16:14; Acts 18:27; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 1:29; 2 Timothy 2:25-26.

    The Spirit Effectually Calls

    Romans 1:6-7; Romans 8:30; Romans 9:23-24; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:9; 1 Corinthians 1:23-31; Galatians 1:15-16; Ephesians 4:4; 2 Timothy 1:9; Hebrews 9:15; Jude 1:1; 1 Peter 1:15; 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 5:10; 2 Peter 1:3; Revelation 17:14.

    Salvation Given by a Sovereign God

    Isaiah 55:11; John 3:27; John 17:2; Romans 9:16; 1 Corinthians 3:6-7; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Philippians 2:12-13; James 1:18; 1 John 5:20.

    In response to this thread

    P on the way!

    Full text here.

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    #1 jdlongmire, Jun 16, 2008
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  2. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith
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    "You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."
    Acts 7:51, NKJV.
     
  3. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire
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    One verse does not rebut the breadth of Scripture proofs. Particularly when Stephen is preaching to the unregenrate - well - with at least one exception :)

    A perfect example of "I".
     
    #3 jdlongmire, Jun 17, 2008
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  4. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    So only in salvation is God's grace irresistible? To become a Christian, God's grace is so effective that we can't help but choose Him. And immediately God's grace is ineffective to make us keep choosing to listen to Him.

    No one would doubt the Doctrinal certainties concerning the role of the holy Spirit in salvation, I just doubt that it is irresistible.
     
  5. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire
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    Not sure what you mean by this?
     
  6. Allan

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    You are correct that one verse does not rebut the breadth of scriptural proofs but if one verse contradicts your scriptural truths, it would behoove you to take notice.

    The premise that there are two calling is not specifically found in the scripture but is something that is presumed.

    What is the difference between God's calling and God's calling in scirpture?

    Let me put this out here:
    Prov 1:24-25 coincides with Pauls statement in Rom 10:21
    Add to that the verse already cited by Humblesmith which states:
    The evidence given already actaully begins to compound itself against the presumption of "Irrestistable Grace". (and of course this does not include those verses yet to be given - so the breadth of scripture seems to have shrunk considerably - IMO)


    God's grace is 'irrefutable' but not irresistable.


    In this of course comes the aspect of 'regenation' which brings up something that is a whole other thread by itself. It just so happens there is a thread about regeneration, what is and when it takes place which can be found - "Here" :) .
     
  7. webdog

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    If God's grace were irresistable, our response and love for Him would not be based on choice. It would result in forced love, which is an oxymoron. Love is a choice. You cannot force someone to love you, which would be the case with the "I".
     
  8. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire
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    Pre-Fall, Man had choice - his choice resulted in Man losing choice and all Mankind became slaves to sin. If God did not irresistably call us through His grace, we could not love Him.

    John 8:34
    Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

    John 8:42

    Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

    2 Thessalonians 3:5
    May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the steadfastness of Christ.
     
  9. webdog

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    Post fall, man has a choice. Choice by definition involves the option of two or more things. I believe the sin nature that occured after the fall results in mankind being slaves to sin, i.e. man WILL sin. I believe this is part of human DNA post fall. In the same way humans WILL walk, talk, think, reason, etc. they WILL sin, but they are not born sinners. A sinner is one who commits sin. John 8:4, what you quoted says just that...everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin...not whoever is born is a slave of sin from birth.
     
    #9 webdog, Jun 17, 2008
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  10. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    I mean that in your argument, God's grace to effect our salvation is irresistible, but immediately after salvation in a believer's life, God's grace is resistible.

    You are making salvation grace a particular kind of grace that is different from the grace that God gives to enable us to live for Him.
     
  11. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum
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    There are all kinds of different grace in Calvinism Brother Tom.

    Irresistible Grace is connected to Calvinism's doctrine of Monergism; i.e., God regenerates His elect before salvation at which time He gives them (instills in them in the Holy Spirit) the gifts of repentance and faith. Once the elect are regenerated (given initial spiritual life), they will no longer resist God's drawing of them (they will no longer want to resist).
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    I would be interested to see the supposed verses for Monergism.
     
  13. J.D.

    J.D.
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    Uh, I come back from a break and find out that I'm being upstaged by another JD. Sorry, bud, I've got seniority here, so you'll have to go find your own board to play on.

    JUST KIDDING!! WELCOME JD!

    Edit: Nice blog too JD.
     
    #13 J.D., Jun 17, 2008
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  14. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum
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    Brother Mitchell,

    I hope you understand that I DO NOT believe in Monergism.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Yea I have seen enough of your posts that I knew that.
     
  16. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum
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    By the way Brother Mitchell, I love your signature statement.

     
    #16 Dr. L.T. Ketchum, Jun 17, 2008
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  17. pinoybaptist

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    One problem I see in this never-ending debate between Calvinism and Arminianism or (to those offended by tags) non-Calvinism, is that non-Calvinists try to refute the Calvinists through the Bible.

    God had the Bible written, compiled and preserved for the instruction, information, and benefit of His children (regardless of which theological or soteriological side of the fence they are), not those outside of His people.

    Now, if there is one example where an Amalekite, a Jebusite, or a termite was rebuked by Jehovah in the Old Testament, or a Gentile dog rebuked by Jesus in the New Testament, for not heeding His call to grace, repentance, mercy, or service, then the theory that God's grace is resistable, refutable, or whatever, has a leg to stand on.
     
  18. skypair

    skypair
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    Well, maybe if you were a millionaire octagenarian and the object of your affection was Anna Nicole Smith. :laugh:

    skypair
     
  19. skypair

    skypair
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    Yeah. That's pretty obvious. Just like you couldn't love your WIFE, right?

    skypair
     
  20. skypair

    skypair
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    How about "hath a name that liveth but art dead," Mr. Sardis?

    skypair
     
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