Calvinism - TULIP - "I"rresistible Grace

Here is another place you want to say that holy scripture is wrong.

This is the verse I quoted that you disagree with

If you think its funny to disagree with the Bible, your "news flash" came not from God but from what you wished God was.

Again...shame on you

 

This does not even follow logical disagreement of the point made.

I said "However, it should be noted election has nothing to do with Gods justice,..."

Election is part of God mercy. So I said nothing even close to claiming God is unjust.

In fact my post before which you changed in you folly, said "Is God unjust? God forbid!"

This of course is what Paul says in Romans 9 after he tells us what election is know some would reject it.

 

This is what they do to scripture, and then they want to say that you do not use scripture in support of your arguments. After watching scripture mangled in this way, I wonder why....

All does not mean "ALL" unless they say it means "ALL..."

The world means some of all the peoples of the world, draw means drag. Grace means efficacious grace. Atonement for the whole world means atonement for all the elect of the whole world... etc., etc...

If they would let scripture alone and let it speak at face value, it might help to post them some time.

They do more free styling with scripture than Shack does with rap...

 

still no verses.....only more of Mans logic.

I guess that about raps it up....right shack?

 

The criteria revealed to us by God is "according to the kind intention of His will". Eph. 1:5. Why can't you just accept that?

Words have meaning. "Grace" means "unmerited favor". Every time scripture speaks of God's grace toward us in salvation, God is revealing to us that there was nothing in us that warranted salvation.

You didn't read my post very well. I quoted, in context, from Ephesians.

I agree with scripture, in total, in context.

What is the logical conclusion of this one verse? Does it mean all men will be saved? BTW, please get your answer from this one verse, since that is the only verse you want to stress.

While your meditating on that verse, please attempt to harmonize it with these verses. John 17: 2 "even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. (3) This is eternal life, that they may know You.....(9) I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours,

And while you are harmonizing those verses, please consider these as well, John 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. (27) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish."

Jesus tells them they do not believe because they are not His sheep. Notice He didn't tell them they weren't His sheep because they didn't believe. The "reason" they didn't believe was because they are not His sheep. How does that harmonize with I John 2:2?

I don't feel compelled to eliminate "random selection", because I don't feel compelled to question God's authority to make choices according to His good pleasure and for whatever reasons He so desires.

Why, exactly, do you feel compelled to eliminate "random selection"?

The criteria is scripture. God told us it was "Grace", according to the kind intention of His will.

Faith, most certainly, is the means by which salvation is appropriated by believers. But that is not the question. The question is the criteria by which God chose us for His "Grace". That is clearly answered in scripture, time and again, as "Grace" according to His will.

We can confirm what scripture teaches, in context, and nothing else.

Without looking, can you quote John 3:8? What about John 3:21? You should be able to, since they are very important to understanding John 3:16.

The "whosoever" of John 3:16 has already been qualified by John 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

The Greek word "wishes" denotes a deliberate determination of the will. Clearly, Jesus is revealing to us that being "born again" is a work of the will of God, Holy Spirit, which cannot be predicted nor manipulated by men.

That is, BTW, a theme that is repeated from John 1:12-13, which clearly demonstrates that those who are "born" of God, even those who believe, do so because of the will of God, not the will of man.

That very same theme is repeated in John 3:21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manisfested as having been wrought in God,"

Again, Jesus reveals to us that those who believe, who come to the Light, will manifest to everyone that God is the source of their new life.

Please harmonize those passages of scripture with I John 2:2.

peace to youraying:

 

What else can we accept as not self indigenous to this phrase, according to the kind intentions of his will...? Just as it intends to reveal that there was nothing in man worthy to merit salvation; it also does not posit salvational election either.

Now let's focus on the meaning and that which is indigenous to the word choice, aka election. Choice portends the selection of one over another based on some criteria found in the one selected, and absent from the one not chosen... This is where4 reformed theology looses its integrity. Choice not based on criteria is called random selection; personally I do not have a problem with that. I do not believe that the bible teaches random selection, but it just as adamantly rejects election based on nothing...

I forgot, what verse is that... Are we talking about Christ being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world? If yes, the answer is "NO"!!! It does not mean that "ALL" men will be saved. Truth is it does not portend the salvation of any... We are saved by grace, not atonement. The atonement is effective vertical, not horizontal. Meaning that it was the wrath of God towards sin, NOT MEN, that was propitiated. It only paved the way to salvation for all that believe...

Expresses and establishes Christ’s authority to save... Does not make the atonement salvific.... God gave believers to his son, believers represent his elect. How many have been rejected by God because they did not believe. Please do not insult me now with that efficacious grace stuff...

You do not believe because you are not my sheep, and you are not my sheep because you do not believe...

Why do men perish?
2 Thes 2:
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Is it because of limited atonement? Is it because they are not his sheep. "NO"!!!! It is because they (They) chose to believe a lie over truth. We are saved by grace, through faith, not through atonement, not through sheep, not through election. You wanted scripture, you got scripture. Now you can do that thing that you do so well, do not take it at face value, reform it....

You used the word "CHOICE", there are certain things that are indigenous to the word, and criteria is one of them. Even you know that good pleasure is not indicative of a choice being made, it represents no more than some influence behind said choice. Should you determine to respond to this, be logical and reasonable in your response, or do not respond at all...

If human logic is below you, then you are above me, insufficient facts in common to discuss matter... We speak different languages...

Why, exactly, do you feel compelled to eliminate "random selection"?

Incoherent babble. Establishes nor denies anything...:BangHead:
raying:
peace to youraying:[/QUOTE]

 

Why does he need "Bible verses" to explain calvinism's etymology?