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Featured Calvinism/Why God Hates

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Feb 1, 2015.

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  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Nope. :wavey:
     
    #101 thatbrian, Feb 4, 2015
  2. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    :thumbsup:
     
    #102 robustheologian, Feb 4, 2015
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Give it some time. If you delve into Calvinism and take it seriously to it's final conclusions, you will have no other choice but to except (1) God is also hate, not just love (2) TULIP is the Gospel (3) No belief in TULIP = No sheep (4) One becomes a Calvinist the same way one becomes a Christian - by Divine Enablement.

    We are all at different growth levels. Keep on digging deeper and the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to these truths listed above...

    You see, there is really no such thing as a "hyper" Calvinist. It should be called a "Divinely Enabled" Calvinist for it is the Spirit whom reveals the truths of Calvinism.

    You heard convicted1's testimony, he's slowly getting there. Brother Icon is running a solid second, SBM is leading the way with much Divine Enablement to his credit! I don't think there is much left for him to be shown.
     
    #103 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    This is a Hate based upon Spiritual Principles and Love to God and His Honor, but David hated men who were staunch enemies to God and His cause and Name Ps 139:19-22

    19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

    20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

    21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

    22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

    No need making any excuses by saying this is OT scripture or a prayer, because it is Scripture, Heaven Breathed and as Paul once wrote 2 Tim 3:16

    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    David is not merely saying he hates the sin of them, but that he hates THEM the persons themselves, enemies of God and His Name, who take God's Name in Vain, false religion !
     
    #104 savedbymercy, Feb 4, 2015
  5. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    I have delve deep into Calvinism/Reformed tradition and take it very seriously. After years of studying and higher education, my careful exegesis has never taken me to such conclusions. (1) I wouldn't say God IS hate. Yes He does hate, but there is a sense in which He loves everyone just like (and there is scripture for this) there is a sense in which He has saved all, but especially the elect. (2) I have a very scriptural definition of the gospel...Romans 1:16-17 (3) I have a very scriptural definition of sheep...John 10:27-29 (4) I can maybe see what you mean...but I would rather go with the traditional Calvinist term "illuminated". If "divine enablement" is what SBM has I'd rather not have that. Having the real truth about the grace and love of God will "divinely enable" us to show grace and love (which includes peace, kindness, and gentleness—Gal. 5:22) to our neighbors instead of being dissentious (Gal. 5:20).
     
    #105 robustheologian, Feb 4, 2015
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Steaver hides behind sbm......Steaver has been asked to explain 1 cor 2:7-16 as he ridicules the fact that illumination by the Spirit and salvation itself only takes place as a person is enabled by God's enabling grace.
    RATHER than answer to that Stever seeks to sow discord among the brethren.....
    anything but answer to 1 cor.2
     
    #106 Iconoclast, Feb 4, 2015
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  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Brother Iconoclast,


    This is Brother Steaver...

    [​IMG]
     
    #107 convicted1, Feb 4, 2015
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You liked the analogy of the mosquito. ...lol.... I think he enjoyed that himself.
    I.T. L. did not like yours on Lazarus ......not a surprise. It takes away man's supposed ability .

    What led up to Lazarus death does not matter.....life from death is what matters
     
    #108 Iconoclast, Feb 4, 2015
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Actually, that's supposed to be a cartoon of a gnat...you know, they just get around your ears and....bzzzzzBZZZZbzzzzzBZZZZbzzzzzz
     
    #109 convicted1, Feb 4, 2015
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Brother Icon, what is it you would have me explain about 1Cor2:7-16 ? Do I disagree with it? Or do I disagree with what you apply this passage to? Which I gave a listing above.

    You believe that those who do not believe TULIP are not Jesus' sheep. I posted the exact quotes word for word and your defense is 1Cor2:7-16 for your belief in this. Please ask me to provide the post one more time, I will be glad to although by now I know you and everyone else knows it very well.

    Now, other Cals here do not believe as you do on this, they agree with me that you are mishandling these scriptures and in some twisted way in your own mine you believe the Spirit has taught you these things.

    So 1Cor2, as ALL scripture, is spot on! But anyone can believe anything and say the Spirit told me so. We are to try the spirits to see if they be of God. You are following hard on SBM's heals, not far behind, and he also believes 1Cor2:7-16 is on his side. So what do you say to him?
     
    #110 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    So Steaver........spot on as in...... the Spirit is given to enable a person to welcome Divine truth?

    Explain it Steaver.....you wanted me to explain what I believe.....anyone can say...spot on...what does the passage say?

    Also.....speak to me if you could.....leave SBM and his false ideas to your conversation with him .

    ok.....now open up that 1 cor passage......what does the Spirit enable believers to do.....go ahead Steaver...you can declare it........
     
    #111 Iconoclast, Feb 4, 2015
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  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Is that all you have left brother? If you want to know if what you believe is truth, you need to test it up against tough questioning and scrutiny.

    We have a wide range of Calvinist believers here, all in differing stages of Divine enablement. Those having less Divine enablement argue against those who have been given more Diven enablement. Doesn't make any sense. Icon points to 1Cor2 as evidence that he is right on in what he believes. SBM would say the same, yet they are against each other. And I am the one who gets blamed for trying to divide you guys! You guys apparently don't need any help from me for that :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #112 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Here it is brother....wait for it......

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."

    Ok, great! Now, why does your knowing of the things that are freely given you different from the knowing of the things that are freely given SBM? Please EXPLAIN.
     
    #113 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  14. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    No. I have more, but your obstinence is blocking you. You have it already settled. You know it all, have all the answers, your 'free will' allows you to have this 'final authority'. I now bow to you, Sir!

    There is also a wide range of non-cals, too...

    --Mormons
    --Atheists
    --CoC
    --Jews
    --Buddhists
    --Hindus
    --Muslims

    Which of these have it all right, seeing they're all non-cals?
     
    #114 convicted1, Feb 4, 2015
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    okay that's a start stever now go ahead and explain what things Paul is speaking of that the Spirit is given to us to enable us to believe go ahead and explain that
     
    #115 Iconoclast, Feb 4, 2015
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So tell us Willis, do you believe TULIP is truth by your own study, or did the Holy Spirit reveal this unto you?
     
    #116 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  17. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    It's my opinion that TULIP explains the way(s) God deals with people better. It explains the effects of the fall and rise of man better. But I would never call a non-TULIP believer lost...
     
    #117 convicted1, Feb 4, 2015
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  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    No, your turn....

    Ok, great! Now, why does your knowing of the things that are freely given you different from the knowing of the things that are freely given SBM? Please EXPLAIN
     
    #118 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Well that's good to hear! Other Cals here would say God caused them to believe TULIP and would point to 1Cor2 as evidence for their understanding. So there is still hope for you to come out of this....:tongue3:
     
    #119 steaver, Feb 4, 2015
  20. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Okay, what causes some non-cals to be a full blown pelagianist, some semi-pelagianist, some Arminianists(who believe men choose every day whether to serve the Lord or quit), some Lordship Salvationists, &c.?

    Each system has believers who aren't in 'lock step' on every issue. Calvinists are no exception. Neither are non-cals...
     
    #120 convicted1, Feb 4, 2015
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