Calvinist Baptism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by drfuss, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. drfuss

    drfuss
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    In our church, we have water baptism almost every Sunday. Although there is no standard wording, there is always two questions asked of the baptism candidate. The questions go something like this:

    1. Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior?
    2. Do you commit to serve Him the rest of your life?

    The first question requires the believer to have taken some action on his part to answer in the affirmative. The second question requires the believer to commit to taking some action in the future.

    Both questions are not in accord with the 4/5 Point Calvinist belief that the believer takes no action for his salvation.

    My question is: In a theologically correct 4/5 Point Calvinist baptism, what questions would be asked?

    Would it go something like this? One question: Do you believe you have received the free gift of salvation and are a part of God's elect?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    As a five point Calvinist, I see no issue with those two questions. Calvinism does not deny that man submits to Christ in salvation. The point of contention is whether he does that of his own accord, or of God's, (cf. Pelagianism). and whether he does it certainly or possibly (Arminianism).
     
  3. Brandon C. Jones

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    ...and the jokes keep on coming :laugh: This has to be a joke right?
     
  4. Andy T.

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    My thoughts as well, Brandon.
     
  5. reformedbeliever

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    Someone needs to study what calvinist really believe. He has been told more than once.......... so I suppose study would be irrelivent.
     
  6. Martin

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    ==Sometimes it is easier to fight strawmen than to deal with the actual position which requires work (study, etc).
     
  7. webdog

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    I think both questions have merit...

    1. Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior?
    If something is "irresistable", can it not be accepted? I see PL substituted the word "submit". That's not what the question asks though. You don't "submit" when accepting a gift.

    2. Do you commit to serve Him the rest of your life?
    If perseverance of the saints is true, what can the only answer be? Would you honestly have a choice?
     
  8. webdog

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    Well, I have yet to see an intelligent response yet to the question. Pastor Larry has come the closest.
     
  9. Martin

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    ==Well, as you can probably guess, I don't see the point of the question. In fact the question seems just a bit silly to me. Not sure why I should honor it with a thoughtful reply.
     
  10. webdog

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    Then why are you participating in this thead?

    I did outline what I felt to be the point of the questions, btw.
     
  11. skypair

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    I shouldn't think Calvinism would. Once one knows one is saved or knows he/she is "elect," we're not talking about salvation works but sanctification works anyway. Baptism doesn't save but it is part of sanctification.

    Still I would think the phrasing of the question might be different for a Calvinist baptism. More like "Do you believe that Christ is your Lord and Savior?"

    Never having "done" anything to receive "election," I don't suppose it would be correct to say one has "accepted" Christ.

    But you do, Larry, seem to go along with the "accepted" phrasing when you continue "and whether he does it certainly of possibly." Doesn't that distinguish you from Calvinism rather than make you a 5 pointer? I mean, we know that God accepts God. The issue in the first question is does the man accept Him.

    skypair
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Submit and accept are interchangeable in this context. To accept Christ is to submit to his lordship (Rom 10:9).

    The "of" should say "or." Certainly or possibly deals with effectual calling. We believe the Bible teaches that God works in the heart of a sinner so that he will certainly beleive. Arminians believe that God works in the heart of a sinner so that he will possibly believe (but may not).
     
  13. drfuss

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    Webdog writes:
    "I think both questions have merit...

    1. Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior?
    If something is "irresistable", can it not be accepted? I see PL substituted the word "submit". That's not what the question asks though. You don't "submit" when accepting a gift.

    2. Do you commit to serve Him the rest of your life?
    If perseverance of the saints is true, what can the only answer be? Would you honestly have a choice?"


    Perhaps the calvinists have heard this in so many baptisms for so long a time that they don't see how the two questions asked candidates imply that the candidate had to do something for salvation. Of course, we all belive that baptism has nothing to do with salvation, but the first question asked is about salvation.

    In the OP:
    "My question is: In a theologically correct 4/5 Point Calvinist baptism, what questions would be asked?
    Would it go something like this? One question: Do you believe you have received the free gift of salvation and are a part of God's elect?"


    The actual question in the OP has not been addressed by the calvinists.

    An additional question for the calvinists is when you perform a baptism, do you use calvinist type language? If not, why not?
     
  14. Blammo

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    What about pedobaptism? Wasn't that a common practice of early calvinists, as well as many today?
     
  15. johnp.

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    Hello drfuss.


    How can anything be theologically correct if the 5 points are not adhered to?

    I would not ask this of a new convert. I do not see any questions asked in scripture but the person is baptised into the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Are there questions asked of the one being baptised in scripture, I cannot find any?

    Yes. Calvin believed in infant baptism because he believed the children of the children of God are saved and need to be brought into the family of God. Baptism replacing circumcision Blammo.

    john.
     
  16. Blammo

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    My point is, why would a true follower of Calvin (someone who calls himself a Calvinist), be concerned about those questions, much less the answers?
     
  17. johnp.

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    I'm sorry I don't understand. I think I was asked whether I believed in the Trinity and that Christ died for me and answering in the affirmative I was baptised into the Trinity. I see no reason or warrant to question the one being baptised at baptism.
    If a man is asked at his baptism if he believes in certain things and he answers then he has confessed with his mouth to the letter.

    Your question is biased. A follower of Calvin is a follower of Calvin, you will not find many of them among the Calvinists. :)

    I think, if these questions are asked, it could be to see if you are in line with that particular Church's doctrine.

    john.
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    I suppose we might devise some questions based on actual scripture language, such as:

    "Have you repented of your sins?"

    "Do you now before this congregation confess Jesus as Lord?"

    "Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?"

    Presumably the pastor already knew the answers from the candidate or he wouldn't be in the baptismal pool. So the questions are a way of "confessing Jesus before men."

    The beauty of the questions is that they are straight out of scripture, and one doesn't have to be concerned if they fit Calvinists or non-Calvinist theology.
     
  19. Blammo

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    That reminds me of my first question to Calvinists on this forum - "Why, if you do not adhere to all of John Calvin's teachings, would you call yourself a Calvinist?"

    It's a nickname, I know, I've heard. However, it's like me calling myself a Libertarian 'cause I believe in limited government, even though I reject many of the other issues that define them.
     
  20. Blammo

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    Tom, those are great questions, and I applaud you for being consistent.
     

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